Need recommendations for a CA licensed attorney who can help me get my gray market car released.
Start out and contact "GNK" in costa mesa , speak with geroge. Sorry man I know what sort of a cluster *uck you're in right now. What sort of car is it and did you get authorization to import it in the 1st place, if it was sold to you with the intent to import and is 1984 and newer the seller might have not fully disclosed what you were getting your self into. 1) Any gray market cars that are on the books for import might be ok to import just as long your able to get a place like GNK to perform the conversion, $17,000 and up if the car is not on the books and needs to be crash tested your looking at over $250,000+ if the car is a specialty exempt car or historical car Just as a heads up for any other people looking to pick up a gray market Ferrari I have found and seen a couple of newer 360's and other Ferrari's that have bypassed te federal required procedure needed to legally reg them. Most cases I have seen the EPA completed or bypassed and the same for the DOT/NHTSB. 1) Xj220 2) Peugeot 205 T16 rally car 3) RS200 ford rally car but you might as well look into exporting the car again and just as a back up plan , I think your only allowed so many days before customs demands it to be exported or will be put up for forfeiture for US customs auction. sorry I hope you get some leads calling up GNK G & K Automotive Conversion www.gnkauto.com 2530 S Birch St Santa Ana, CA 92707-3444 (714) 545-9503
Jose summed it up very well. For CA it can be tricky. Been a while since I did my car but as I recall the car has to have >10K miles AND you have to pass the CARB certification test. That isn't your ordinary smog test but the as new testing that manufacturers have to go through. Good luck and keep us updated.
It's gotten really difficult to import and bascially pointless to import a euro/jap gray-market car into the USA. Mention the "D"iesel word and entry into the USA is automatically denied. As from the OP reading I would like to know what happened and if he was told he can import and he found out like many others have the hard way and now has to pay break bulk storage. Honestly for anyone importing a car read the rules and call up the EPA or DOT before you import and then Give GNK a call. Once again I have to highly warn people who are looking at any Ferrari or Euro gray market car that is 1985 and newer ask the EPA or DOT if the paper work was properly done. As I have said before I have found a handful of Ferrari's that have either completed the EPA and circumvented the DOT or vice versa. So check the car before you buy it. This isn't something car fax can tell you.
I need an attorney who has experience with dealing with EPA and DOT on gray market cars that have not been converted properly. This is not an issue G&K can resolve. It is more complicated and involves falsified paperwork and bills of sale.
I second G&K! George knows exactly what to do. don't even bother with anyone else. Also, if in the PRK and you are looking at a grey car just ask for a copy of the papers. You are 90% home. then search the Ca.gov smog website and plug in the VIN and look at the smog history. When you have a nice history of passing smog you know this car has been put through all the tests and has what it needs to be smogged in cali. That's a car that you can buy with good piece of mind.
Very true and you and a couple of others know how to properly do this but many cases I have seen and also called the EPA / DOT to ask about the validity of the paper work and most cases neither DOT or EPA was completed as well the car was basically smuggled in. Woah, this is going to turn into a can of worms , ok here is the 411 on this so given the limited info you have posted on here , not only have I referd you to a person who not only specializes with complicated EPA/DOT issues but has also imported exotics for the past 30+ years as well knows every possibly every high powered attorney in the automotive filed who can thus refer you to someone who is not an ambulance chaser. Given the complicated / expensive cluster **** you have found your self in , you could be faced with an issued with CBP / ICE 1) customs could show up and seize the car *eventhough* its a state matter at this point. 2) regardless you had false paper work on the car now and someone circumvented the EPA/DOT - customs could seize the car and put it in a warehouse where you would have to pay for storage on it untill it is exported and then re-imported. No this happens on a daily basis. 3) Regardless of the matter you got a car under circumstances that would flag it to be exported and then re import it. if that is the case a-load and brace container loading $1500usd b-20ft container rate 3-4,000usd (ro-ro $1500 + laundry list of charges = $3900) c-car has to leave the continental usa - cant go to mex or canada d-with in that the car can not be re-enterd back into the usa for 60-90days e-once its allowed back in you will have to apply with us/customs/NHTSB/EPA/DOT to be allowed to import - shipping by 20ft container back into the USA (5,000+depending) f-car goes straight back to GNK automotive - certified for 50state legal $18,000-$30,000 g-take the paper work to DMV. this is really upsetting to read what happend with the F-car you have and the bs you have to go thru but lmk what else I can do to help. I just think you need to start there. So true, if any one is looking at a gray market euro car if it was done by GNK auto your covered , but I would highly scrutinize and forensically go over every imported document to make sure it was done properly. If not you might get them feds knocking at your door. very well said.
You may already be screwed but instead of being a total loss you may also look into conversion of this car into an offroad racecar. Many people import all kinds of racecars from overseas and many of the 355C and 360C's came to america from the euopean series. There are a bunch of different rules for imported racecars and while this is not what you want you might be able to at least use it on the track or sell it to a racer and not take a total financial beating. You may want to ask your lawyer about that too. Martin from Cavillino motorsports or something like that used to be on Fchat regularly and he has imported several 355C and 360C if I am not mistaken. He may be able to give you some info. He is in florida. I'm a racer and from my point of view the best thing to buy is a tainted euro car because you can get them cheap and they make awesome racecar conversions. Many racers look hard for bmws and porkers which often times have better motors than the US legal cars.
My thoughts exactly but you know the op is in a cluster f* situation in this case, yeah I think that would be the best thing to do but the OP of the thread bought a car that should have been RI AND ICI certified but was not and bascially probably has false paper work in his hands now but seems as from his post and frustration he might have gotten nabed by the CARB people or the Cali EPA arm of the matter which would mean he has to ship the car out of the USA and start the process all over again or walk away and let California destroy it or have the owner ship it out of the USA. Very true but people who have these cars from my experience will not try to title them for the street and if they do they don't live in cali where every thing gets flagged. Race cars from Ferrari are very easy to obtain letters for race use only where as other makers such as Porsche as well a few others refuse to furnish these sort of letters since they can be held liable beyond some crazy liability issues should the car find its way back on to a public road for street legal use , race cars are almost easy to import just so long you have that letter stating its what it is race use, but "fatbillybob" problem with the OP post is he got a car that possibly has been imported illegally/circumvented EPA/DOT and to only complicate matters worse who ever sold him the car POSSIBLY said is 50 State legal and is really not, bascially and so many words has put him self in the lions mouth with the California registration process................... in this case he will have to export the car from the USA - See, those will have no problem as title only and being for race use only should not have any issues but still a letter from FNA and FOI stating original importation allowed for race use is always important to have. Basically its like a receipt when you buy something from the store. ****Very nice ! see you know whats up and you have done your home work on this*** Unfortunalty many others have not and a fair amount of others well be screwed out of their hard earned $. So to the rest who are reading this thread as a warning to others READ THE ************* PAPER WORK and don't assume a person with a nice car and a house isn't out to screw you !. For the OP of the thread I will do all I can to help you and point you in the right direction to help get your crap sorted out.
G&K is not approved by ARB. Checked with ARB two days ago. Neither is NCDL. Currently there are no labs in CA certified to approve to CA regs. DO NOT ship a car to Canada or Mexico and attempt to reenter. EPA will not allow this. I have found an attorney.
Care to elaborate more on this, i don't see how this is possible ? Would you care to give more info other then that you needed a lawyer on this matter, please do explain and educate me on this. I m not trying to be rude or pushy here but you have not answered my question since there are 2 certified EPA / Air Res Board labs in California one in Nor Cal and in So.cal. Now wait that does not sound right ? how so ? you're really not making any sense on this matter ! Yes there are ARB labs for emission testing unless California shut them down for some other od reason you have not elaborated on they would do something like this ? Um I didn't mention to do this I said if you did read my post not to do this and what it will cost you to get the car out and back in properly under current US Customs / EPA and DOT laws where NHTSB is required. Care to provide info on this person who specilizes in this so I can see the cases argued before a Federal Magistrate Judge. This way I would like to see cases won or lost. Honestly for any other f-chat person reading this thread - honestly you really have to weigh in on the costs on buying a EURO/Gray market Ferrari, and for those that reside in California need to be extra careful before buying and if the car is a 49 State car you will need to call up the EPA and DOT to ask if the paper work was done and if any thing is missing - walk away - if your trying to get the car registered for California you will find your self in a heada55plode experience if any of that EPA or DOT paper work is missing. Simply arguing with the CA DMV will get you sent some where that will not only cost you a lot of *ing money but also a massive time suck. Save up the money by a US certified SPEC north American market Ferrari or a Gray market car that was certified by GNK automotive for California market if not just like someone else said 49 state Euro cars make great track cars.
There are no labs in CA that can certify a gray market car to CA regulations. Call ARB. I did. YOu lost me a while ago.
You are saying no on NCDL and G&K. Interesting, they were the approved labs when I did my car 2-3 years ago. Remember, when I called CARB they couldn't give me a good answer right off. I had to dig around for a while to get to someone who knows. Also, check their web site. It should be listed there.
See, you know your stuff. I kinda found what the op was saying to be conflicting. Anyways wanted to help out but op was not really clear what he wanted to do or give info on the prob. just for any one looking at a euro car for California = track car and just get a temp op permit to drive it to the track or on the weekends think its like $20 per day. OH btw people the KIT CAR vins are coming up so people who need kit car vins better get started on you paper work now since they are only giving out 100 of them this year !
Thanks. Here is a thread I wrote on the process: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119479&highlight=register+euro There are resources at: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/NonCAVeh/NonCAVeh.pdf Direct-Import (DI) (a.k.a. Gray-Market) Vehicles: Used DI vehicles/Licensing of test labs: Ms. Veronica Longhi, (626) 575-6642 or [email protected] I think I have other contact information at home but these should get you going.
