I have taken my 599 on more than one GT road course over the years. I think you would be VERY suprised on how really nimble and fast a 599 can be. Believe me when I say that the GTR is not even on the same page.
I'm not denying that a 599 is fast. Nobody would. But I respectfully disagree with 'not on the same page.' The GT track times at various tracks reveal the cars to be well-matched when driven properly, with an edge given to the Nissan.
tell you what, I'm not a GT-R fanboy and I'd have a 599 over an R35 in a New York minute A 550M, for example, is quite "slower" than a GT-R, and I'd still have that over a GT-R, at least if there was a gun to my head and had to pick one only.
1.) SORRY MY FRIEND, but if you reread my message I said that the car would give it a a good run in a STRAIGHT LINE!!!!! A STRAIGHT LINE. To mention 1/4 mile times and straight line performance is completely logical. How else would you suggest measuring it? 2.) Unless your name is Big Daddy Don Garlits, regardless of your age, I have probably done more drag racing than you and am fully aware of VHT prepped tracks etc... You also have to understand that not every amateur run what you brung track night is prepped. And if the track isn't prepped the traction is actually WORSE than on a typical asphalt street. Also, if you have retarded people who don't know **** about racing (which on run what you brung night typically happens) the cars in front of you always go through the water box and just drag water all across the track. THIS DOES NOT aide in traction. 3.) Magazine test results are typically ****. There testing of manual transmission cars do not allow the car to perform as they should. For example no chance to heat the tires. Acceleration runs on cold tires suck. However this is a constant across all cars tested so at least its even for every car. They also do not allow the use of an aggressive clutch drop, or in some cases feathering the throttle and clutch... which launch control on a ferrari will do... ADVANTAGE F1 equipped car. They also don't allow flat foot shifting which a F1 transmission equipped car practically does. Advantage F1 equipped car. The reason why the magazines don't aggressively shift the cars and launch aggressively is because they don't always want to hurt the cars which is fair and I understand why they do what they do. But it still gives the advantage to the car that only does that and allows that. They spend next to NO time trying to learn how to get the best launch out of a manual equipped car, where as an F1 equipped car has been figured out from the factory which is the best way and the car will do it time after time... that is until the clutch fries. Also, Magazines test methods for 1/4 mile times are different than at drag strips. They have different methods of measuring trap speed which will always yield the magazine getting a higher trap speed and yes even the starting time. 4.) As I said, the car is completely STOCK. Completely STOCK. The car was running on the stock run flat tires. There is even a video of this. The car is driven by one of the best front engine rear drive guys in the country. 5.) As far as a Z06 holding its own on a track against the 599. I will assure you both cars wearing equal tires... the Z06 will beat the 599. It will be close... but the Z06 would ultimately do the deed. Look at Road and Tracks test results of the lightening lap. The 07 Z06 (updated suspension) was about 8 seconds a lap faster than a 997 turbo which wears standard tires. 3 seconds a lap faster than the GT3 which wears race rubber, and only 3.5 seconds slower than a 430 scuderia again wearing race rubber. This is about a 3 minute track and the use of race rubber or race like rubber on a track like this would surely make the difference. you aren't suggesting that the 599 is as fast around the track as a scud are you? I am not saying that the 599 isn't a great car. i would much rather have one than a z06. Any sane normal person would! The 599 is one of my favorite cars of all time. However, it is NOT a great track car. It is a GT. The corvette is more of a track rat than a GT. The corvette was designed to take take on ferrari and beat it at the fraction of the price. And because of it, it sucks and just about everything else it does... although they do have much better AC and much much much larger trunks LOL... I see what you are saying and usually I am the guy that is saying the argument that you are. But when it comes down to just performance facts, which that is what we are discussing. The Zed wins. In real life, the 599 wins. hands down.
The 599 traps much much much higher than a gtr i will give you that... but on the record 1/4 mile run for the z06 the car ran a 129 trap speed. The 599 in motor trend did 126. Also, Motortrend and all magazine measure velocity at the end of the quarter mile or maximum speed achieved over the distance. A trap speed at the drag stripe is calculated between the light at the quarter mile and the one 66 feet before. So its an average vs. maximum speed.
For what it's worth, several independent track tests have shown the 599 to lap a circuit faster than a Z06. First one that come to mind is the EVO track test --> http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/205671/ferrari_599_gtb_fiorano.html Edit: I also found the lap times of the Quattroruote review (see bellow). ...and the the Top Gear times. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Motor Trend November 2009 states on page 40: "Our best Z06 ran 3.5 and 11.5 seconds at 127.1 MPH in the quarter." Road and Track: 123 for Z06 v. 129 for the 599. Setting the magazine stats aside, when I had my 599 I went up to Road America with a friend who had a Z06 and pulled away from him on a consistent basis. We switched cars and same result. This guy drove a Porsche Cup car.
Justin, don't get me wrong, the Z06 is still a hell of a car by any measure and throw price into the equation and it's an amazing value. By the way, I like the Grand Sport.
Well what a Poem ... 1) I suggest to compare cars from same point of view. In there is a planet where a Z06 perform 10,9 s you have to test a 599 GTB on the some planet too and than make a comparison . 2) Don't worry, Im not Big daddy Don Garlits. But Im mechanical engineer with 15 years experience in automotive field. I well know parameters can permit to improve acceleration. You can simply use specific software to pre-calculate it (knowing all parameters from weight distribuition to transmission mechanical loss to tyres-track grip, wheater conditions etc. etc). You can even know how much rpm above power peak you have to use in every gear. A Z06 can not achieve ¼ miles in 10,9 s under normal condition so my argumentations. Tell the contrary means call retard all GM engineers about Z06 performance numbers they diffused. 3) You are a bit confused. Car Magazines usually make test on press cars, not customer cars. Press cars are also very well prepared ( ) by carmakers and may be will be became sellable after complete check-up and reconditioning. Of what are Magazine test drivers scared about ? They are skilled enough to match what carmaker performance engineer declare if ambient condition are correct. They mesure performance with correvit or GPS racelogic, methods that are very accurate. Heating tyres ? They perform different attempts so tyres gonna be heated after first launch. And a F1 goodyer eagle tyres isn't a racing tyres that need to pass 90° celsius to work properly. Be serious on that. 3a) You affirm a 599 has F1 gearbox and LC procedure advantage. Ferrari Launch control is preventive for transmission and clutch. For best results it exist an hidden procedure but this means use improperly the car (no warranty). No more than a 0,1 seconds in a ¼ miles will be gained by using a F1 gearbox instead of a manual. Source ? me, employee in Magneti Marelli Powertrain, Italy. I let you guess what we supplies to ferrari for the 599.... Its much more important that a 599 use option carbon-ceramics brake rotors that decrease unsprung mass, improving acceleration. A 599 is heavier than a Z06 but much powerful and with much more weight on the rear (47/53 against 49/51) that improve grip at the start. More, the longer gear ratio of 2005 - Z06 do the rest. Check the torque at wheel difference (not at the flywheel) . a Z06 don't have any chance. 4) All the people on the net knows Ranger (.....), but video description on you tube says 10,9 on drag radials so you are wrong. 5) I don't follow you anymore. We passed to compare 599 and Z06 in a straight line to how they perfom on track. Anyway you refer to Road and Tracks test results of the lightening lap. Well using your words maybe they were scared to hurt both Porsche or maybe they did not heat properly GT3 michelin pilot sport cup ... Seriously my friend, I agree with you that a Z06 is a good track car but there is no technical explanation of these lap gaps with Porsches (with a 911 GT3 using track tyres as Michelin pilot sport cup ...) And don't use equation price=performance. It has no sense for cars It has no sense price=squared meters for apartments It has no sense price=amount of feed for restaurants Esclusivity, soul, passion, drive feeling. You can not mesure them with numbers. Cheers Luque
yes but we have to say the true. Quattroruote vairano handling circuit have been modified in july 2006 (just before 599 test) and make it a bit faster (about 1s). Z06 was tested in 2005. Plus 599 GTB quattroruote press car was well prepared ..... more or less it had what now is the HGTE package (suspension set-up more firm and softer P-zero hero tyres).
Interesting. I had not heard of that. It surprises me that Quattroruote would juxtapose the times of those different cars if the track sustained such modifications. It was the July issue which tested the 599...meaning that the test itself must have been carried out in August and therefore presumably before these modifications? How do you know that? Are you sure that Chevy didn't do similar modifications for the Corvette's track test? +1 I completely agree.
I need to go to my attic where I stored my QR collection because I well read about that. Anyway check also this information here to confirm this information : http://www.**************/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=71292 Vairano handling circuit have again been modified (november 2009) so we will loose any reference from 2010 Quattroruote test I don't know anything about corvette test of 2005. The 599 GTB was a bit prepared .... not to much. Tyres were P-Zero Hero with specific softer compound .... Evo magazine noticed that during its test at end 2006 Ciao Luque
How may I put a working link ?? anyway go to supercar.net (http://www) than car comparison section than Index of Important Comparison Threads than Vairano (Quattroruote) Track Times
The 1/4 mile trap speed is a good indicator of how fast a car is. And the GT-R is generally about 6-10 mph slower there, although dyno tests have proven the GT-R's true HP is well into the 500s. The ET indicates how much traction you have at the launch, and with AWD it has plenty. I'm not surprised in the slightest by the vids.
Lucque- Just looked back at this thread and looked at your comments on drag. As you know, both Cd and Cl are functions of velocity. Cx is an average, as you noted, but camouflages a lot of velocity related variations and is only useful over a limited velocity range. A look at the actual plots of Cd vs velocity, and Cl vs velocity, would tell us more about how the GTR and 599 perform over the range of 0-200 mph/0-322 kph and would show the 599 has superior high speed aerodynamics. My work on Cd/Cl is mostly in the aerospace field, where velocity related coefficients show dramatic changes over certain velocity/mach regimes and L/D can vary considerably. I would not expect such wide variations in the velocity range we are discussing, but would expect a statistically significant variation between these two vehicles in the 125 mph/202 kph+ velocity range. Taz Terry Phillips
Hi Terry, I fully understand your argumentations but I have no data (means drag vs velocity) to confirm what you mean. Seems the 599 develope more downforce so I suppose induced drag is going up at higher speed. Form drag and friction drag (that with induced drag form the Cd number) should be almost constant in the 0-300 kph range. Luque
