612 Wheels for 456?

Can anyone tell me if factory OEM 612 scaglietti modular wheels(19X8 Front and 19X10 Rear) will fit on a 456?
Will I need spacers?
Thanks

 

So Taz, what's the answer?

 

They will not fit at all because the bolt pattern is different, 5x108mm for a 456 vs 5x114mm for the 612, 599, California, and 458. I have not seen any adapters yet, and they would need to be at least 25mm thick to work.

Keep seeing this question, usually from the V8 crowd, so it may be worth Hill Engineering's money to make up some sets. Very easy to do and would work just like their Type 2 spacers, the same on the rear of my 575M.

I will ask them if they have any in the works. Here is a chart showing bolt patterns sizes, and offsets for most of the modern Ferraris. Not all-inclusive on the latest cars with optional wheels.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Ferrari OEM Wheel Sizes


5 X 114 mm Bolt Pattern

612

Five Spoke F 18”, R 19”, 5 X 114 mm
Front 8J X 18 ET 43.5 mm , R 10J X 19 ET 51.1 mm
Five Spoke Modulars 19”, 5 X 114 mm
Front 8J X 19 ET 43.5 mm, Rear 10J X 19 ET 51.1 mm
Challenge Monolithic 20”, 5 X 114 mm
Front 8J X 20 ET 43.5 mm, Rear 10J X 20 ET 51.1 mm

599/HGTE

Five Spoke F 19”, R 20”, 5 X 114 mm
Front 8J X 19 ET 43.5 mm, Rear 11J X 20 ET 63.8 mm
Challenge Monolithic 20”, 5 X 114 mm
Front 8J X 20 ET 43.5 mm, Rear 11J X 20 ET 63.8 mm
HGTE Five Spoke 20”, 5 X 114 mm
Front 8.5J X 20 ET 40 mm, Rear 11J X 20 ET 63.8 mm

California

Pentagram Forged 19”, 5 X 114 mm
Front 8J X 19 ET 44 mm, Rear 10J X 19 ET 52.5 mm

458

Five Spoke 20”, 5 X 114 mm
Front 8.5J X 20 ET 46.5mm, Rear 10.5J X 20 ET 58.5 mm


5 X 108 mm Bolt Pattern

348

Five Spoke 17” Early, 5 X 108 mm
Front 7.5J X 17 ET 49 mm, Rear 9J X 17 ET 68 mm
Five Spoke 17” Late, 5 X 108 mm
Front 7.5J X 17 ET 49 mm, Rear 9J X 17 ET 43.05 mm




355

Five Spoke 18”, 5 X 108 mm
Front 7.5J X 18 ET 32 mm, Rear 10J X 18 ET 77.9 mm

456 GT/456M

Five Spoke 17”, 5 X 108 mm
Front 8.5J X 17 ET 50 mm, Rear 10J X 17 ET 24.6mm

360

Five Spoke and Modular 18”, 5 X 108 mm
Front 7.5J X 18 ET 31.5 mm, Rear 10J X 18 ET 39 mm

360 Challenge Stradale

Challenge Monolithic 19”, 5 X 108 mm
Front 7.5J X 19 ET 31.5 mm, Rear 10J X 19 ET 39 mm

550/575M/575 Superamerica

550/575M Five Spoke/Modular 18”, 5 X 108 mm
Front 8.5J X 18 ET 43.65 mm, Rear 10.5J X 18 ET 32 mm
575M/575 Superamerica Five Spoke Modular, 5 X 108 mm
Front 8.5J X 19 ET 43.65 mm, Rear 10.5J X 19 ET 32 mm

f430

Five (Ten) Spoke and Challenge Monolithic 19”, 5 X 108 mm
Front 7.5J X 19 ET 31.5 mm, Rear 10J X 19 ET 39 mm

Scuderia/16M

10 Spoke, Five Spoke 19”, 5 X 108 mm
Front 8J X 19 ET 31.5 mm, Rear 10J X 19 ET 39 mm

 

Thanks for your reply and for the detail info.I currently have stock 17" wheels on my 456 and would like to upgrade..
Any suggestions as to which factory wheels would fit on the 456?
What about the 18" or 19" 550/575 wheels,they have the same bolt pattern (5X108mm) ??
Would they fit?

Ed

 

Ed- Affirmative, they will fit. I just sold my 18" 575M wheels to a 456 owner. Look at these threads for a lot more information and photos:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273475

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269332

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277446

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156067&highlight=456+wheels

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Of course Taz is correct- but before I knew him I researched this because there was a beautiful set of 612 take-offs (ball polished) with brand new Pirelli's that sold for $2k on eBay. There are many companies that will custom build adapters for as little as $150/pair or cheaper. Google and pick- I can't remember who I was serious about before I went with Challenge reps.

Here's one example ==> http://www.motorsport-tech.com/4DCGI/wheel_adapters

But it's not the one I used last year- that site last year allowed you to input exact hub size, bolt pattern and thickness desired for both input and output cars- but I just can't remember whose site it was.

 

Erik- If you find that site, I would be interested, too. Would want to make sure they used hardened inserts in the adapters, as well.

Another option is to buy that beautiful set of yellow caliper 599 brakes in FerrariAds and bolt them on. Presto, better brakes and the newer wheels fit. Not sure how hard the brakes would be to fit.

I did send a message to Hill Engineering today.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I'm still looking Terry- this is not "the" site but they do have 108 to 114 adaptors with heat treated studs- don't know this company and I liked the other website more because I know you had to input hubsize as well as bolt patterns...

http://adaptitusa.com/5x100to5x112wheeladapters-4.aspx

I'll keep looking and find it-

Erik

 

Erik- Those will not work. Ferrari wheels use bolts instead of studs and nuts. What is needed is a 25mm adapter with holes drilled for short bolts in a 5x108mm pattern and additional holes with hardened inserts in a 5x114mm pattern for the wheel bolts.

The adapter would look just like Hill Engineering's Type 2 spacers except the holes with hardened inserts would be in a larger diameter circle. Here is what would be needed with the hardened inserts moved outboard 3mm.

Also need to ensure the wheels will fit with 25mm (~1 inch) spacers. Anything less thick, and there is not enough thread for the wheel bolts to fasten securely.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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Thanks Taz- I realize the bolted ones shown won't work but just can't seem to find the website. My car is using 25mm spacers (maybe made by Hill) just like those shown but they came with my rims with all the hardware so I didn't order them. They fit the hub and teh rims perfectly.

When I was looking I did see a site where you inputed the details; hub bore and bolt spacing of the original car, along with same for the donor rims- they would fab a spacer/adapter and supply the lugs.

I just haven't been able to find that exact site- but perhaps this one would work by completing the quote fabrication request form. Fred G. sounds like he has a lot of real race experience as well.

http://www.wheeladapter.com/request_quote.php

Just an option perhaps.

 

Erik- He has some Type 2 spacers for the Toyota Tacoma, but does not use hardened inserts like Hill Engineering. The wheel bolts just thread into the aluminum spacer. Plus they are expensive @~$350.

I bought a used set like that for my car and ended up throwing them away because they were so badly cross-threaded. That is what you would expect with big bolts turning into aluminum threads. Especially true with a Ferrari hub if it does not have a wheel hanger stud to take the weight of the wheel while you are struggling to get the first bolt started. I would not buy adapters or spacers unless they had hardened inserts (helicoils, essentially) for the wheel bolts after looking at the used set I tossed.

Received no reply to my enquiry to Hill on adapters. We shall see.

Taz
Terry phillips

 

You make a good point- I thought the inserts on mine were a different color but I'm not sure now- will have to check them out. Mine have a hub "lip" that locates the wheel before any bolts are tightened. I torqued them to 83 FtLbs (~15% over 74) as a fudge factor. I remove the wheels to clean everything rotors, calipers, etc and checked them at 6 months and 12 months and all was good-

 

Erik- My techs use 100 ft lbs. They are just like you and not comfortable with the 74 ft lbs recommended by Ferrari. I believe the SAE document on bolt size vs torque recommends a higher torque value, as well.

If you have HE spacers, like mine and the ones I posted above, the inserts are blued-steel helicoils. The bluing helps prevent galvanic corrosion.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I always thought 74 sounded wimpy that's why I used the 15% FF (I'm a ChemE- others might use a different % !) but a 100 sounds pretty high over spec... I'm in Maranello next week (I love saying that...) and I will try to find another data point.

Thanks.

 

Reviving a mummified thread.....

So... could the rotors be removed, and then machined with the 114mm spacing? Anyone ever have custom rotors machined with a 114mm bolt spacing?

 

You would need to fabricate hub mounting pads for the spindle and rotor hats made (go 2 piece rotor). Wheel adapters would be much easier, cheaper and knowing Ferrari offsets would likely look better on the car. The adapters with studs are much more robust than adapters with helicoils, but they weigh more.