OFFICIAL B-17 Thread

Bob, I would love to hear about the explanation behind your first note- it really goes over my head in a number of ways.

From what I understand Aluminum Overcast was a late production model that never saw service (after '45 I believe). Any war-time parts have been fitted to be period correct for a Flying Fortress, but not necessarily all from the same time. According to this, it has one Studebaker 1820 and three Curtiss-Wright 1820-97 engines:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_Overcast

 

As an aside, when I was wandering around last week I overheard a woman talking to her family about how they used to 'rivet on these panels' as I was ducking under the wing.

I wasn't going to disturb her by asking for details, but as a grandchild of that generation it definitely resonated in a big way..

 

Having toured both B-17s and B-24s, the latter was definitely "nicer" to be in from a space standpoint. But I still like the '17 better!

 

The interior "heating" was supplied by three small heat exchangers inserted into the exhaust pipes of number two and number three engines. Glycol was circulated through them and heated by the engine exhaust and then routed into the cabin heaters that didn't heat much. If one looks at a completely stock B-17 in wartime dress these glycol " boilers " can be seen mounted in the exhaust with the glycol lines attached to them. The newer side gun mounts in the waist allowed the waist windows to remain closed during action thus eliminating the -40 deg blast of wind from entering the gunner's position. I think that they were E6 mounts. Another armament improvement was the Cheyenne Mod or " pumpkin" tail turret that gave the tail gunner a better field of vision and got rid of the canvas " bag" enclosure and the zippers.
I hope that explains the comments.
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I tried this earlier and it went into space so I'll try again.
There were three types of nose domes. One was the original Boeing design that came out on the " F " and it was a bit shorter than the second design by Vega which was longer and more bullet-like and the best looking. The third was the late war and post war design with a spherical upper half that didn't blend in with the contours of the nose and was the ugliest. It, however, had better optics that didn't distort the view ahead.
The lower wing surface behind the rear spar had numerous circular inspection doors that permitted inspection of the control system and fuel system hose and tubing connections.
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The B-17 was terribly over designed and rigid as a brick in flight. It was an archaic design when the war broke out and had many primitive features but one that wasn't was its durability. It could fly at 35000 feet.
The B-24 was a modern design that used the latest structural design features so it was light and had a more efficient airframe. The Davis wing went to sleep above 25000 feet but it was faster and carried a bigger load than the B-17 and flew further. The R1830 was s and is a superb engine but the airplane would fold up like a wet paper bag if it was hit in right place.
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I wonder, is that an "early" Garmin GPS over the windshield?

 

Good spot. Here it is full-size.
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If anybody's interested, Aluminum Overcast will be in Santa Barbara this weekend, 4/23-25.

 

OMG I had forgotten about the air museum in Claremont until I read this post. I used to go up there, off Foothill (or Route 66 to those who know) to see the birds in the mid 60's. It brings back such great memories for a young kid at that time.
Did those planes go down to Chino when it closed?

 

I'm gonna be there. When will you be there? Do you know if there's any "seats" left?

 

I remember my first visit to Maloney's place; it was in 1968 and at the time it was in Ontario. I've got some old photos I need to dig out and if I do, I'll start a new thread. And I had the pleasure of meeting Tony LeVier at a small airshow at Northrop's Hawthorne airfield in 1987. I think that the only old test pilot who I enjoyed speaking with as much was Tex Johnston.

 

Funny! There's a great story in a book called "Road-side America" ,I think, about a gas station in the Seattle area in the late forties, early fifties, that had a B17 mounted on the roof and it spells out the whole saga of how the guy bought the plane, surplus, in Arizona, I think, and flew it to Seattle with a couple of friends. They could have used that GPS since they had to keep swooping down to try and read the signs on the highways, which were not big in those days, to find their way home.

 

Actually, the plane is in Oregon and came from Kansas (I read the book many years ago so I'm lucky I even remembered the title). Check out www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2968.

 

They all went to Ed Maloney's next Air Museum location at the Ontario airport and finally to Chino as the nucleus of today's Planes of Fame.

 

I have a sinking feeling that people think that I'm pulling everybody's leg about the glycol boilers so I'm digging through my stuff for pictures or drawings. The B-24 didn't have the old fashioned heated glycol source because it had Southwind gas heaters on the flight deck.
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Please feel free to pull my leg anytime Bob! Though you will need to give me a hint if you do, because I (and many others here) will simply take anything you say as gospel. Not trying to flatter you sir, just giving you your due.

BTW, I seem to recall something about the glycol system being described to me back when I was tinkering around with Shoo-shoo-baby back at Dover.

Les

 

I'm not trying to be an oracle or anything near it. I just have a lot ofstuff bumping around in my head that I feel close to. I like to blab and I like to write about things dear to me and the B-17 certainly is one of them. I lived with them for a while and got to know them here stateside and then worked at Boeing for a long time and dug into the archives to get into the real history of it. I'm doing a detailed series of drawings of the airplane insides and out. I just hope that I can finish it before I am.
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I had the pleasure to meet this grand lady when she was at Love Field in Dallas a few weeks ago. She belongs to the Collins Foundation and was accompanied by her B-24 cousin (is there a B-24 thread where I can add her pics?). I love all old warbirds and have an immense amount of respect for the people who put their work, time and money into them so these planes can continue living in the skies.

I was allowed complete access to this B-17 and spent my time trying to imagine I was 19 or 20 again, flying all over Europe while other kids shot at me. My imagination failed me; I cannot grasp what kind of experience that must have been.

I have many more pics, all in much higher resolution but here is a sample.

Second shot is the bombardier's office with his Norden and turret controls. The pilot's stick, the mixture and boost controls with cowl flap and mag switches just in front, the autopilot switches, a shot from the right waist gun and another with the B-24 "Witchcraft" in the background.
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A B-17 just flew over my house this morning at about 9 am... I have seen it, a B-24, and a F7F flying often lately around the Seattle area.

 

I guess that I will be classified as a nit-picker but I have to comment on the colors and application of the camouflage on Nine O Nine. The O.D. is far too light AND shiny, the under surface grey is too light and the pattern on the engine nacelles is just plain wrong. From the leading edge the O.D. on the nacelles dropped down about 8 inches, went forward to the cowling and then wrapped around the leading edge of the cowling to the other side where it went aft to 8" under the wing leading edge and coursed upward to meet the wing. leading edge. Again, there is all kinds of photo and specifications to refer to in order to get it right. Nobody bothers. " Thunder Bird" is wrong too. Also the interior of these airplanes was never zinc chromated, they were bare aluminum because they were never expected to last more than maybe 25 hours in action at the top end. It is amazing , though that so many of them have the correct interior equipment such as gun sights, bomb sights, etc. I used to see them with the wiring bundles with the lock stitch cut and the bundles spread out between clamps to minimize damage from flack or bullets. Also the engine nacelles were caked with black carbon and grease from having the hell run out of them. The rest of the airplane wore the same patina of hard use.

 

I couldn't remember the number of the bomb group of the airplane that I did a painting of for the 50 th B-17 anniversary. "Ol' Miss Destry" flew 138 missions without an abort, an incredible record. I was bowled over to see my painting listed on the web. When the celebration was in full swing I was ordered from the flight line into the headquarters trailer . I thought that I had screwed something up but when I got there I saw an older gentleman sitting in the office in tears. He told me that I had captured the airplane too well. He was assigned as the second navigator on " Ol' Miss Destry" and told me that when he went out to take his first look at the airplane he wasn't sure that he wanted to fly in it because it was a patched up piece. When he went inside to check it he said that the interior was caked in spots with dried blood and vomit. He flew the last 25 missions in the airplane before it was taken out of combat service. A Boeing photographer named Joe Harlick was a gunner/photographer in the 305th and he was scheduled to fly back to the states in the airplane but he refused. He said that it flew like it was made out of rubber and there wasn't a tight rivet in it. The airplane did make it back only to be scrapped. What a monument she would have been to the crews who didn't last as long as she did.

 

I think that I am going to do a book on how to paint a B-17 in authentic WW2 colors.

 

We found this oar from a B-17 life raft kit in a farm in France. The bomber belly-landed in 1944. The third photo is from the Navigator's book. In the book is said that the oars could also be used as masts for sail...
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