This is the automotive equivalent of a sock in your pants!
Certainly its excusable. Valves are valves, all engine designs have dropped one at one time or another. Its not the fault of the engine or its design, but the valve itself, or something overlooked during assembly. After 18 months though I would suspect a flaw in the valve. Years back I worked on a few Jags. Like our beloved Ferrari's they were all either very neglected or hacked up by idiots. Usually a lot of both. Our work was virtually 100% sorting them out and putting them right. Jag mechanics? We had an XKE someone had cut holes through the back floor to put in brake pads, rather than take the time to drop the axle and do the job right. But the ****** still charged $1200 for a brake job, complete with the crude sheet metal panels he put in with sheet metal screws. I've seen much worse than that though. Again, just like these Ferrari's, people who could barely afford the purchase of the car, could, not, or would not afford to maintain them. Dealerships and private garages often had to accept anyone willing to wrench on them, regardless whether they were qualified. Charletans, always looking for opportunity, often took up fixing these cars, purely because it was so very easy to rip people off, same as we see so often with our Ferrari's. I have seen quite a few 350 conversions into V-12 Jags, none done well. Though I do understand a few were done "OK'ish". I never once met anyone who did the work who knew, or cared one iota anything about the Jag engine other than to refer to it as a pos. In almost every case, the owner had the car at some Bozo's garage who only understood Chevy V-8's, who saw them as Gods greatest creation to mankind, and who believed everything in the world runs better with a Chevy small block, regardless of how crudely its installed, which is generally the case. It seems electrical tape, bale wire and wire ties far outclass decent harness covers in most cases, just like this Fierriio. Just yank a rusty motor out of the junk yard and "drop er in der." The Jags were complex cars, and the 12 is a very, very complex engine. In the hands of commited people they are dream machines. In the hands of morons, they are certifiable nightmares. This 308 is no different. Someone who couldnt afford it, took it to someone who didnt understand it, or even care, and this is the sad result. After boogering up the car and spending half as much as what they probably could have fixed it right for, this is the result. Hillbilly mechanics. Now that the car is all effed up and they dont want it, they try and talk up how great it is. Its garbage. Its laziness. Its beyond crude. And there is absolutely no way to justify it, or glorify it, without first putting out your eyes with a red hot poker.
Oh, god, not this "you ruined the soul of the car!" crap. It's a machine, it doesn't have a soul. ANY semblance of "soul" it might have is imparted by the builder, be it a factory worker on an assembly line or an owner lovingly working on the car in it's garage. in fact, I posit that a car lovingly rebuilt by it's owner in his garage has more of that "soul" than any assembly line product you can name. You probably hate cars like Jensen Intercepters, Bizzarinis, Isos, etc. And a guy walking down the street with an artificial heart is no longer a man to you, huh? Never understood how it could be a badge of honor to be closed minded. The car this thread about was built poorly, with low quality craftsmanship. I've done better work on cars with a zero dollar budget. But the concept of doing an engine swap isn't garbage. I've done engine swaps in a lot of cars. My V8 RX7 got a lot of rotary engine purists all pissed off for changing the character of the car. Yes, the character was changed, which was the whole point. Just like changing suspension settings, or adding power, or changing th ecolor changes the character of the car from stock. It's the POINT of modifying a mass produced machine. To personalize it, to take your favorite parts from a number of different sourtces and blend them together into a machine YOU personally want. I was told about my RX7, "if you wanted a Mustang/Camaro, you should have BOUGHT one." As though an RX7 is identical to a Mustang or Camaro outside the engine... But they were right, if I wanted one I WOULD have bought one. I didn't want one. I wanted what I built. I'm doing a couple engine swaps right now, Japanese engines into both an MGB and a '63 Mercury Comet. Because that's the combination I want. This guy is being told he could have bought an old Corvette. He obviously didn't WANT an old Corvette. If YOU wanted him to have an old Corvette, you should BUY it for him.
Ferrari's are quite rare in most places. Some people may go half a lifetime and never see one in person. And it may be the only Ferrari some people will ever see in their entire lifetime. In that one instance, when they walk up to the car and look under the hood, dont they deserve to see a real Ferrari engine in the darn thing? I dont care what someone puts under the hood, a Ferrari should have a Ferrari engine. Its like the 11th Commandment or something. The example of the artificial heart doesnt work because our heart is more a metafor. A better example would be removing a persons persona. If your wife or child lost thier mind and became someone else, if they were "gone", and in their place were some different person you couldnt recognize, you would feel a great loss. Like maybe someone with amnesia. Maybe this sounds silly to some, but I do believe a great many Ferrari, Jag, and other "sporting" car owners feel like that. Its also a trait many aircraft buffs share, and boat buffs. They dont just want the right parts on it, they want the "original" parts on it. A museum doesnt want a dinosaur with a cow skull, they want the whole dinosaur. People just dont care to see dinosaurs with cow skulls at a museum. And I dont want to see a Ferrari or a Jag or any other supercar with a Chevy engine. Put them in the more mundane cars. Better yet, leave them in the GM cars they came from. There is a lot more interesting stuff out there to play with than anything they made.
I understand you point and Ive done a few of those types of swaps over the years .but IMO what you have is basically a kit car at that point. The chassis/body and the engine are components that define what a car is, which I guess is why they are the components that carry the VIN. To be a Ferrari it has to have a Ferrari engine as does a Chevy or a Mazda, not necessarily the engine it came with but it needs to be the correct brand if you want to continue to call it a Ferrari, Chevy, or Mazda. The last one of these I build was a Fiat with a Cadillac engine .which I called my Fiadillac
I kind of understand the GM engine swap in the Jag XJS since it had a GM400 in it anyways. The cars had been set up from the factory incorrectly and overheated causing valves to drop, and that's just inexcuseable on a new car. Once set up correctly that V12 is a nice engine, nothing like doing 100mph on the interstate and hearing nothing but a little transmission hum, and the stereo. Almost no windnoise at all. That car could really have been something special.
NO excuse NEW out of the box. Not twice in the first 18 months from being NEW. NO, no excuse, regardless if it's a Jag, Ferrari, Lambo or Chevy.
If y'all don't mind me sayin' it there seems to be an emerging trend here.... Those guys that are mechanically oriented and do lots of their own work (more than just changing a spark plug or wheel bearing) seem pretty open to the possibilities of modifications including engine swaps.....while those guys that more predominantly "check book" mechanics seem less open to it.......hhhhmmmmm.....
This is what we call piss poor design on the part of the engineering team. Anytime you make something that should be simple, into a complex, expensive process, because something like routine maintenance didn't fit into the design considerations, you have no business being an engineer. Or, maybe that is is the way things are done in Europe, don't worry about it, it isn't your job, just do what you are told, and let someone else clean up the mess. And yes, i am a graduate engineer. Doug
In response to Merc63: After years in the auto repair biz, I can attest that many cars do in fact have a "soul", especially low production or specialty cars. By contast, your average American or Asian transportation appliance is essentially "soul-less". By gutting the heart of a Ferrari(the powertrain),the owner has in effect removed the very thing that made it special. Same goes for guys dropping small block Chevys in everything from Jags to original steel '32 Fords. The '60's European hybrids you mention, Jensons, Isos, Cobras, etc are a different story. Those cars were born that way, and the American V8s that power them are a part of their "soul".
Hey now... early Cobras were not born that way, they were transplants. And a car has no soul, it's soul is in the love the owner has in it. We like to think that the hand-built cars somehow have more soul, and we back this up with images of "old-world craftsmen" doing their work for the love of the product. The truth is they did what they did to put food on the table, just like the guy who runs the stamping machine at some body plant today. Shiny Side Up! Bill
No soul in the religous sense, but here the word soul refers to the feeling the machine imparts to the operator. When I first drove my 308 I call a buddy from the car to tell him to get one because "everybody need one of these". It was quite a different feel from anything I'd driven before. When I supercharged it it became everything I love about the 308 and more but I never liked the sound of the supercharger and hopefully the V12 will solve that problem and get it back to the pure ferrari feel/soul. A 308 with a fiero engine is nothing but a shel of it's former self. A 308 with a SBC or similar will be fast but will never feel like a ferrari and I personally don't think you can call it a ferrari.
Ive been wrenching since I old enough to hold I was old enough to hold a screwdriver and a pair of pliers. Tore my first engine apart at 8. In the ensuing 43 years ive worked on everything from outboard motors to aircraft and seldom pay anyone else to do things for me unless I lack the tools. I have nothing against modifications to machines, but I have great difficulty accepting the bastardization of works of art. Modifications be definition are something that improves something. A Ferrari and its engine are both art. A Chevy is almost always plagarism of art, and their engines are cheap machines. Stuffing a GM motor into a Ferrari can then, in no way improve it, therefore its not viable to be considered a modification.
I follow your logic Paul, and that's certainly a valid perspective. I have the same mechanical background to you so I understand where you're coming from. The older I get, the more I appreciate simplicity, particularly with regard to engineering design. In fact, simple and elegant design can be artistic in itself. The traditional american V8 is certainly simple, and that is indeed one of its redeeming qualities. As much as the 3.0ltr ferrari V8 is beautiful and sophisticated, it's also modest on power output for it's weight and size and cost and complexity. Someone else's attempt at reconfiguring the mouse trap and trying something else isn't necessarily an automatic bastardization, it's an exercise in skill and design. This particular exercise obviously didn't go that well however.....
Oh, I quite agree that with just about any engine it isn't completely a Ferrari any longer. Still, I would think a well built Northstar or DOHC Cobra motor would give much of the original "feel" though with increased power and reliability. A nice V-12 longitudinally mounted with 288 GTO body panels would be cool too! Ah well, since he'll never sell it to me for 5K, I guess the world will never know! Shiny Side Up! Bill
There must be 100 different engine/drivetrain combinations that could be fitted into a 308. Almost any front drive powerplant could be made to work. There are several Japanese cars that could be crammed in, perhaps a V-tec Honda V-6 from an Acura. Or a Mitsubishi VR4 with twin turbo's. But no, this clown had to find one of the worst powerplants known to man. Funny he didnt think to put a 2 stroke three banger out of an old Saab into it. On a more scientific bent, it would be interesting to put a VW diesel back there and see what kind of fuel economy it could squeak out. Wouldnt that just burn up a Prius driver if you could whoop them in mileage?
Worse than that, one of the world's WORST transmissions. I had a friend with a Fiero GT and even though brand new, the shifter had all the precision of a baseball bat in a rain barrel. I will give the guy some credit... after watching the video he was able to get the gated shifter to work with the that transmission. Rick
I don't know what the history of this car is, but suspect that the Ferrari engine had a catastrophic failure, possibly due to lack of maintenance. The owner looked into getting the engine repaired/replaced and came to the conclusion it costs way more than it's worth. At that point, parting out the car would have made sense from recovering the most money out of the junk. An easier solution would have been to push it outside under a tree, and let it rot. Either way gets another 308 off the road permanently. The owner might have chosen to sell (or possibly even give) the junk to someone for not that much money. If you happen to have a running Fiero parts car sitting next to the shop (or mobile home), this swap makes sense. Use the stuff you have available along with some red neck rigging. Buying another donor vehicle isn't cheap/free. I know this is not the original engine, soul or whatever to this Ferrari and it looses a big part of the appeal. On the other hand, the Fiero donor has has kept this car on the road. Would it have been better to part it out or let it rot? In my view, this is a huge success. Why go the usual, Fiero with a Ferrari look, if you have the opportunity to do just the opposite? What's even better, is seeing the purist get all roused up. The amount of negative blabber really surprised (and impressed) me. Let's feed the negative fire by saying that most (but certainly not all) of the people making the comments do not have the skills to performs this swap even if they wanted to. Go back to writing checks or possibly even changing your spark plugs.
Hmmmmm....maybe if he figures out how to power that thing with a chainsaw motor you'll be even more impressed?
That would be sweet! Years ago I noticed that the hp/ci of model airplane engines was very high.....which got it into my head that I should make a 24 or 48 cyl radial kind of thing and put it in a motorcycle. I never did but something like that would be a nice extension of the chainsaw enging concept for this car. The drive train out od a golf cart would be sweet too....
I hate to keep this thread alive any longer than necessary but I ran across this tidbit the other day and just wondered if maybe this is what the seller has and doesn't know it??? Got this off a web site full of history and triva on the Magnum PI series. "The show used more than one car when filming. One was a dedicated "action car" which was used for certain car chases and driving sequences. Another car was used for still shots and close-up scenes. There were also "kit car" versions of the 308 that were used for some of the more aggressive driving scenes done on the show. The kit cars were made of fiberglass and were built on a Pontiac Fiero chassis." Here is a link to the page on the web site. http://magnum-mania.com/Articles/The_Ferrari.html
