458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

wow!

yes I am ...

just so I can get more educated, could you please explain what design features make that wheel 'horrible' looking? surely there must be some objective problem with them that is plain to see to all except me.

 

Hey, that's derogatory towards those of us who have thick rimmed glasses!

All the best,
Four-eyed Andrew.

 

Competition is good for Ferrari, it keeps them humble and up to date with their competitors. I for one, am glad the Mclaren came out and is faster than the Ferrari.

The Gallardo had the same effect on the 360 back in 2004, and then the 430 raised the bar and then Lambo relased the SE, LP etc......

This is great for the industry!

 

Yeah - if you want to talk about a bad wheel design, look no further than this one.

I liked them at first, and then someone mentioned what the spokes look like and now I can't even look at them without laughing.

>8^)
ER
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The car is just not pretty, nor intimidating with regards to it's looks. I was hoping they might come up with some great looking wheels to "save" the car, but nope.

Again, so since you think they look great, with all the "lightness" and "technology", then you must be on the waiting list?

 

Hahaha

 

Truly, if you are not interested in my opinions/arguments, you are very free to ignore them. Nothing's easier. Just don't read this thread.

 

Thanks a lot Erik. You just ruined it for me too.

 

I don't know what you guys are talking about. The design obviously is based on classic science fiction!
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For those of you old enough to remember, when the NSX came out and liberally trounced the 348, many Ferrari fans were up in arms dismissing it; now we know we were wrong. The 12C will do the same to the 458. Technically and on the road/track it is looking like the 458 got wacked.

 

I think a lot of people realize that competition is a good thing. Some like the 12C and others don't. Either way, it brings new blood into the market.

Ferrari would never have worked so hard on the 360 if the NSX didn't show the way.

 

In the early 90's I had an NSX and then 348
I went back to an NSX
After which Honda sat on their laurels and
never improved the NSX But Ferrari came
to the table with the 355 The rest is History

But McLaren are not going to be that easy
to defeat or get rid off.

 

I think McLaren are here to stay. Whether they make their US targets 2 years from now is still debatable. They have a lot of obstacles to overcome. If the car is in the shop more than on the road, it's not going to be very successful -- especially given their small dealer network. That's just one of the problems.

But, internationally, I think they will do very well. The brand name means a lot more overseas than it does in the US (sorry Mac guys... its true).

 

Absolutely - I also think year 2 & 3 Will be difficult especially
since they plan to ramp up production numbers

 

Frankly everyone is having a tough time. 458's aren't exactly flying out the door either in Year 2.

The Canadian dealership started calling the top of their list today. Based on the response, they will do just fine in Year 2 with their existing prospects.

 

One thing to notice here is that overall, once you get some reasonable (or maybe not so reasonable) specs in, MP4 is actually more expensive than Italia. Not a huge difference, but noticeable.

 

I love those wheels! I believe they are referred to internally at McLaren as either the "Pissing Match" or the "Circle Jerk". Either way, that centre cap has got to be a little concerned.

 

Very cool fact about NSX: When McLaren and Gordon Murray were designing the F1, they did an exhaustive evaluation of every supercar available at the time - Ferrari, Lambo, Lotus, you name it. They rated them all on every significant factor of performance, ergonomics, etc. The car that they rated higher than all others when the tally was done? NSX. The driving position and sightlines especially were a major influence on the F1's design and those criteria were maintained as key for the 12C. So, even from it's grave, the NSX is proving to be a pesky little ba$tard.

 

I personally think McLaren is making a big marketing mistake. They are taking a pretty big risk.

I would have waited one year before offering the car in the US. Now, I'm not talking as an enthusiast. I'm talking as a business person.

I would have opened all the dealerships in Europe and Asia, made the car very succesful, show that it is reliable, get the bugs out of the way, and let the US drool over it's coming.

Then, I would have launched in the US with the right product, the right experience, the right team, and the market preheated properly.

The US market is one of the most difficult to enter. How many great brands and cars are not sold here? How many have left?

Sure, a few people on Fchat are hard nosed enough to take the risk. But, when the problems pop up (and they will), will the loyalty continue? Even those here who have put down deposits admitted they are taking a leap of faith. Is that the best way to enter the US market? I don't think so.

Compare the few here that have put down a deposit vs all the people who did for the 458 sight unseen. It's no where near the same.

The Mac guys are going to think I'm a hater but if you look at it practically, there is no reason why Dennis needed to enter the US market first and have the most dealerships in the US first.

He's only going to get one shot at this. IMO, you should do it when you have the highest assurance of success. Anyway you slice it, you can't say launching in the US first assures the greatest chance of success.

Unless I needed the money for short term benefit, that's what I would have done if it were my company.

 

McLaren will allow prospective owners to watch their car being built every day on the web.

 

Yes quite a few brands have entered the US in the wrong way
and then left - Renault Fiat and Peugeot are examples of failure

 

Yeah cool but can we heckle the factory workers. Hey buddy you missed a spot!

 

I think they have little choice. US is the biggest market for exotics. You have to make it here to be successful (unless you are Pagani). They have north of $1B riding on it. They can't wait.

 

I came across one of the first MP4-12C reviews out there.

http://magazine.windingroad.com/issue/67/

They had reviewed the 458 a while ago. I don't know if it is just because I'm a 458 owner that I find the 458 review to be exciting, when you read emotions are transmitted. The McLaren on the other hand feels factish, just numbers.

Any way here's the 458 review if you guys wanna check it out.

http://magazine.windingroad.com/issue/63/

 

This is actually pretty consistent pattern in all the early reviews. Although, I have to say it seems to be related mainly to the aural delights of Italia. One thing that is not very clear from those early reviews is how the car feels: how's the steering? How communicative is it? I am surprised that nobody is commenting on that.