Vintage section Fake/Replica/Recreation/Rebody discussion | Page 14 | FerrariChat

Vintage section Fake/Replica/Recreation/Rebody discussion

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by Julio Batista, Feb 9, 2012.

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Page 14 of 35
  1. robert_c

    robert_c F1 Rookie

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    #326 robert_c, Feb 13, 2012
    I'm taking my ball and I'm going home.
     
  2. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #327 dm_n_stuff, Feb 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2012
    Well here we go again.

    ego overtakes intellect.

    Battle ensues.

    Site loses.

    And frankly in this instance two people I consider internet friends are gonna be on the losing end.

    Julio, if he does leave, loses a long standing relationship with literally hundreds of like minded Ferrari fans. Rob, if he succeeds, drives off another member who has more good to give than bad to leave behind.

    I don't get this giant ego battle nonsense. Rob, attacking someone for whom English is not their first language by asking if the understand English is insulting. Demeaning. It's beneath you. If you don't like what Julio's doing, then tell him to stop or ban him, don't attack his language skills. This is an INTERNATIONAL site, many will find this insulting, not just Julio. It's baiting at its worst.

    Discuss the points, not the personality. didn't any of you have to take a debating class? Or a public speaking class? Geez, am I the only guy who was submitted to Robert's rules of Order? C'mon fellas, trade ideas, not barbs.

    D
     
  3. Julio Batista

    Julio Batista Formula 3

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    #328 Julio Batista, Feb 13, 2012
    Jaime, tienes razón en todo, pero no se trata de eso.

    Se trata simplemente del anuncio de una replica en cabeza de la sección de vintage, y de la reacción del dueño de esta web.

    La decepción es cruel (este sitio ha sido una gran y maravillosa parte de mi vida), pero la culpa es en buen parte mía.

    Ahora soy yo quien no entiende inglés... Bueno, a ver su español...;) Descalificar a un extranjero por motivos de idioma es siempre una cobardía.

    Si entiende algo, sabrá que yo aquí no vuelvo antes que el se disculpe. Y como no se va a disculpar, pues es lo que hay.
     
  4. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

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    #329 JazzyO, Feb 13, 2012
    Excellent post, Dave. I was also sorry to see the spiral out of control which ironically came after Julio's apology.

    IMHO it was unnecessary and ultimately we all lose.

    I hope we can sort this out. It's been a bit of a blood bath but I do believe that ultimately the Vintage F-chat community comes out stronger as a whole. And hopefully we will not have had to sacrifice some deeply valued members of that community in the process. But it may be too late.


    Onno
     
  5. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #330 dm_n_stuff, Feb 13, 2012

    I would not hold my breath for an apology, Julio.

    It's time to move on. Let it go. Enjoy the people of Fchat for what they are, and let those who bother you alone to be who they are.

    Let's talk cars, ok?

    Dave
     
  6. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #331 Napolis, Feb 13, 2012
    Marcel

    A real 250 GTO has already been turned into a spyder by David Piper back in the day when he found his coupe too hot to race at the 24 Hours of Daytona.

    The next owner turned it back into a coupe. Is that 250 GTO as original as one that was never turned into a coupe no, but in the scheme of things does it really matter that at one time David chopped the roof off?

    As for the second point you raise a rebodied one off Ferrari has already received an offer higher than the latest 250 GTO sale. I realise that an offer (Even one from a member of the Saudi Royal Family) isn't a sale but as this offer has been made I do think it's possible that one day a one off rebodied Ferrari could sell for more than an original 250 GTO.

    One off's are a lot rarer than one of 36 and markets over time may value them accordingly.

    That is one reason why original unique paintings sell for many times what original 250 GTO's do. IMO they always will. The ratio today is almost 5 to 1 and while there are several 250 GTO's for sale today there is no Mona Lisa for sale and if there was it would bring MUCH, MUCH more than the most expensive artwork ever has to date or a 250 GTO ever will.

    Best
     
  7. tomberlin

    tomberlin Formula Junior
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    #332 tomberlin, Feb 13, 2012
    Anyone else sense my fear this would end poorly?
     
  8. RS6bird

    RS6bird Formula Junior

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    #333 RS6bird, Feb 13, 2012
    Reading this post makes me feel like I'm hearing 7 year olds arguing in a playground...can't you all relax and back off a little?

    Julio: your contributions to F-chat are greatly appreciated and I still recall reading about your MM adventures, it would be silly for you to walk out.
    Rob: F-Chat is a great place to read and immerse yourself in Ferrari passion and knowledge, you do a great job of running it.

    Now can we please set the Ego's aside and be rational?

    Am I the only person that can actually grasp Julio's point of view as well as Rob's? So each has pissed on the other's shoes...can't each say "I'm sorry" and move on? (you've done your part Julio...)...I mean get back to posting about all things Ferrari...
     
  9. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye F1 Veteran
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    #334 Hawkeye, Feb 13, 2012
    I have a hard time with a Ferrari painted a different color than original and think people that change a GTE into something else will regret it and admit such crime on their death bed. However, this is heated banter among a bunch of men that could just as easily take place in a pub. We're all friends here. Group Hug?
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #335 rob lay, Feb 13, 2012
    So let me get this perfectly straight. You come into vintage with a thread titled "The current vintage section is a DISGRACE: Fakechat" and post the following...

    ...while I made several clear posts that my distaste for replicas is the same as yours and most users on FerrariChat and that policy has been consistent for the 12 year existence of FerrariChat you still post like I never said that and you tried to instead misrepresent my posts and paraphrase me that I was a supporter of replicas.

    Finally when I challenged you to clearly ask me the question so I clearly could quote what I have posted you have refused. From the beginning it appears you weren't looking for a positive outcome. Started with your thread title, continued with your misrepresentation of my stance, and then finished with what you knew would be the truth and since that would head towards a positive outcome your only choice was a dramatic Dear John.

    I will lay your questions out for you with exact quotes and times I have already posted from only this thread.

    1) Does FerrariChat.com support fakes and replicas?

    Julio, Marcel, other, and Rob have the exact same view!

    2) Why were fakes and replicas posted in Vintage? What should be done if a fake or replica is posted in Vintage?

    Everyone now knows our policy and process if they didn't know before!

    3) Why doesn't FerrariChat have a Replica forum?

    4) Why do Redline's threads appear on the main forum page as latest thread? What is Redline allowed to post in the their own subforum? How about the main Vintage forum?

    In closing I tried my best to show that Julio and I were mostly on the same page and had the EXACT same opinion on Replicas and Fakes. The only differences were...

    1) I believe recreations on an original Ferrari chassis and using original Ferrari parts can be discussed in Vintage for what the SN originally was, like a GTE or 330 2+2 if identified for what they really were when leaving Maranello. Julio and others don't think recreations belong in Vintage.

    2) Not really a difference because I agree with Julio and dm_n_stuff that Redline's sponsor threads within their subforum shouldn't appear on the main page as the latest thread in Vintage. So we agree, I just haven't been able to fix the bug yet.

    On the personal front Julio...

    1) Ignorance only referred to your lack of knowledge on the FerrariChat policy and procedures with reporting and moving replica threads.

    2) Obviously you know English, in a non-literal sense my point was simply I laid the above out very clearly but you still weren't getting it and I still don't think you get it or you wouldn't post as you have.

    3) I respect and appreciate that after starting this thread you apologized and backed off on your words and tone, but then in the end not really sure you were sorry.
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #336 Marcel Massini, Feb 13, 2012
    I agree.

    Marcel Massini
    (English or American is not my mother language)
     
  12. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    #337 Tenney, Feb 13, 2012
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oOv3cuP8M4[/ame]
     
  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #338 rob lay, Feb 13, 2012
    I have seen some of your past posts, I think we both speak Texan. :D;):D
     
  14. DennisForza

    DennisForza Formula 3

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    #339 DennisForza, Feb 13, 2012
    Marcel,
    You are THE authority on all things vintage Ferrari, it is YOUR thing. Very few have the time and resources to do what you do. If we did, than this would not be YOUR THING. Surely with your knowledge and your experiance, having to sort through the chaff of a few replica/reproduction/fake threads in the section is not going to be that much trouble. I mean, how much crap do you have to sort through during your research on cars to find the truth? This whole discussion seems pretty repetative, snobby, old, and not really going anywhere. If Rob could make a sub-section to Vintage for replica/reproduction/fakes to go in, that would be great. But, not doing it should not distroy the section either.

    My Two Lira,
    Dennis
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #340 Marcel Massini, Feb 13, 2012
    Really? I am learning every day. Please post the photo. Thank you.

    Marcel Massini
     
  16. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    #341 Tenney, Feb 13, 2012
  17. docmirror

    docmirror Formula Junior

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    #342 docmirror, Feb 13, 2012
    Hmm, I must be reading a different thread than many of you. The one I'm reading shows a guest coming into the party put on by another and promptly pissing in his punchbowl, then telling the host to clean it up. Admittedly, the guest did BYOB, and is now taking his bottle of 2 Buck Chuck and leaving, but not before sowing consternation and leaving a trail of vitriol in his wake.

    I'm gonna hang out here. Maybe the OP will start a forum, invest thousands of dollars, and many hours of time and energy. Only to have an invited guest come over to crap on his dinner table.
     
  18. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    #343 Tenney, Feb 13, 2012
    Same read here. Then the guest said 'hey, sorry about that whole punch bowl thing', and we've subsequently moved on ...

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3r9bOkYW9s&feature=relmfu[/ame]
     
  19. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #344 amenasce, Feb 13, 2012
    How cocky.
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #345 Napolis, Feb 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was wrong David didn't turn his opriginal 250 GTO into a spyder but he did chop down the original windshield and roof to make it faster in 1964. He entered it in the 1964 24 Hours of Daytona where his cut down, non original low roof 250 GTO finished second overall which wasn't too bad of a result.

    The eventual owner undid David's chop, not in the day, but 17 years later. My question, that you still haven't answered remains. In the scheme of thing why should this matter?

    David bought a new 250 GTO from Enzo. He raced it for a while and deceided he wanted to make it faster so he chopped the original roof and windshield down to lower it's aerodynamic profile. Seventeen years later the guy who bought it wanted it to be as it was originally so he undid David's chop. Simply part of it's history.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #346 Napolis, Feb 13, 2012
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #347 Napolis, Feb 13, 2012
    Andrew you often put things too kindly.
     
  23. theowinstone

    theowinstone Karting

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    #348 theowinstone, Feb 13, 2012
    Love that low roof look!!
     
  24. JCR

    JCR F1 World Champ
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    #349 JCR, Feb 13, 2012
    Aerodynamically "cleaned" the front removing turn signals and filling in the three small intakes too. Interesting.
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #350 Napolis, Feb 13, 2012
    Low Rider, shaved 250 GTO...
     
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