Do You Really Like It?

I'm glad you understand me, because I don't understand you.

Relative to a Porsche, a 355 steering feels crappy, but as I said, you DO get used to it and I quite like it now.

Also, relative to an NSX, a 348 has nice steering...but everything else is a let down.

Clarified?

For every person who'd buy a 348 over a 355, there's a very busy psychiatrist

p.s. for the over sensitive, I'm kidding. More or less.

 

Sorry mate, was speaking in plain English, know how that can be tough for you lot to follow. Was just saying that if you drove a 348 it'd give your agument more..... What's the word...... Well, it'd give you an argument. Just go drive one, no matter what you think tell me it's rubbish, then we can ***** at each other from a level playing field. Sound fair?

And anyway, how do you know the psychiatrist is very busy? Been trying to get an appointment?

Much as I'd love to stay and chat, the sun is out (doesn't happen that often here) and I've got to nip out somewhere in my rather disappointing 348. Not sure where yet, will just see where I get to. Say hi to the shrink from me when he can fit you in.

p.s. For the overly sensitive my comment about "you lot" was in jest. Think I'm safe though as having checked the word 'sensitive' doesn't seem to appear in the Ausi dictionary

 

LOL

I'm taking the 308 for a drive tomorrow...weather's going to be good, and I want to drive something with nice steering.

 

I was starting to question if I was the only one who didnt have any negative feelings about them.

I always question if those that dont like the 'feel' have tried various alignment spec's prior to redesigning the wheel. Having regularly driven better than a half dozen different 355's in the course of a week, there are as many different 'feels' as there are cars...... as there are alignment settings.

 

Spot on Dave...first thing ANYONE should do, well one of the first things, is to take the car to a really good alignment place. They're pretty hard to find, though.

Also...TYRES..my god they can transform a car. Even if they look in good condition! I recently changed from Pirelli to Bridgestone on the 355 and the car benefited from that tremendously...in the wet and dry. Feels even more planted.

There's still NOTHING better for a 308 than XWXs, either.

 

How difficult would it be to just remove the power steering altogether on the 355?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't it an option on the early 95-96' cars to order the them without PS to begin with?

 

If you can wade back through, the parts are outlined earlier on the thread, but yes it can easily be done so is not an actual issue imo.

 

Thanks! Was on the one page I skipped.

Am I right in assuming you could order early 355's without power steering though?

And come to think of it- was the 355 the first Ferrari to receive power steering or was it fitted to the 456 GT a couple years prior?

 

365GTC/4. We parted out a number to put the PS in the Daytona's, and the Daytona steering box back in the C/4's. I know 4 of which resided in the midwest that got the "update".

I have never seen a 355 w/o PS since they were new, never even heard mention of such a thing in any of the schools... Cant imagine why but as they say, to each their own, why not. I sure would put a NON PS rack in the car rather than just disconnecting the hydraulics... if one was so inclined.

 

I don't know if it was ever available in the US (or maybe just never ordered). It apparently was only available on the 2.7's and then discontinued probably due to lack of demand. It may have gone hand in hand with the introduction of the airbags due to some US crash testing requirement where every configuration would need to be tested and Ferrari figured why bother.

 

I think many confuse steering feel with steering effort. IMO the 355's steering is nearly perfect; it is extremely communicative but rather light. That combination is probably unusual which causes people to confuse the two. I can feel every ripple and pebble on the road as it is, so I have no desire for more "feel."

 

Sorry but don't agree really. If you put steering through a PS rack, you loose feel. Some loose lots, others a bit, but all loose some, it is inevitable. At it's most obvious, the difference between 'I have front end grip' and 'I don't have front end grip' is lessened the more power assistance you have. It has the effect of slightly ironing out the changes in the surface friction. Taken to an extreme, with complete power assist there would be no difference at all between sliding on ice and gripping fully on tarmac. It's just the way it is. I'm not one that says the 355 steering is really awful, far from it, but the high level of power assistance will always loose feel in that the differences in friction (which is effectively what you're feeling) is lessened.

Power steering is geat for slow speeds, cruising or when it's necessary because of the loads experienced vs the steering wheel size. The pay off is less difference between grip levels felt which is, in a nutshell, feel. Sorry, disagree with you.

 

Have you ever driven a 355 hard? I don't mean on a winding road, I mean in a performance environment ala hill climb, autox or race track.

 

Of course he hasn't....he's talking like he's Michael Schumacher, but all his experience is from magazines. Poor guy.

Gee he's gonna kick my ass!

 

No Bob, I haven't, only on a public road. I've said I don't think a 355's steering is bad. Others have, I haven't. I'm not talking 355 steering at all. I'm talking power assistance full stop.

If you add power to the wheel, ie it takes less effort to turn and the road pushing on the tyres transmits less force through the steering wheel, you feel it less. It is deadened. It always will be. I don't think the 355 steering is in anyway bad at what it does. You do feel the road less with power assistance, that in a nutshell is what power assistance does. It's not necessarily a bad thing. It might make it easier to throw it into a corner. It might make it harder for the wheels to be thrown off line if you hit a bump. In fact it will do both of these. It will, by definition, reduce the force the road transmits back through the steering wheel which is feel. That's all. Not good, not bad, but it is merely a fact.

 

This is correct. It took me a while to get used to it, but you can certainly feel what's going on once you have.

 

So temped but no, I'll irritatingly take the moral high ground.

Listen guys, I like the 355, don't mind its feel at all. Does the fact it has fairly light power steering mean the road 'pushes' less back through the wheel? Of course it does, that's what power assistance is. Do I care? No it was designed to be less jumpy or raw, whatever you want to call it, than the 348 and it does it well. I like the slightly live-wire feel the 348 has, can be tiring for long distances but there you have it. The 355 is in no way bad in this area, I prefer the 348 feel, you maybe prefer the 355 feel (apart from Pete obviously coz he's never.... Damn it!) Anyway, was just saying feel is the amount you feel the road through the steering wheel, all power assistance will lessen this a tad. Twas not an attack on the mighty 355, honest.

 

I drove an NSX though. I hear they were better than a 348

Haven't we discussed "better" before?

lol..you're funny...always talking up 348s. Yours must be for sale or something.

 

Thought we did discuss "better" but you got confused when I tried to explain subjective vs objective. It's getting late here, don't think I've got the strength to try to explain it again.

My car for sale? Not at the moment. The average price of 348s has gone up by almost £1000 (that's like thousands of Australian dollars I guess) every month since I bought mine so I'll hold on to it for a while. If me talking it up is affecting the market, I'm doing a bl**dy good job!

 

Talking it up and being successful at it are two different things....but keep trying!

 

Lol. Take care, mate.

 

I knew you wouldn't go to bed without one more post!

 

If you adjust the caster, more road force will be transmitted through the steering rack compensating for the power assist. It's like brightness and contrast. Power steering turns down the brightness (effort) but you can then bring the contrast (feedback) up, where if you did the same with manual steering your arms would get tired as the effort gets too high. That's my experience having played with both manual and power in the same car (in 2 completely different cars). That's also why the 355 manual steering alignment specifies 3 degrees caster vs. 8 degrees for power steering. Have you driven the same car with both manual and power steering in it? Played with alignment specs to get it to do what you want? Tried different tires? Played with tire pressures? I'm not an expert or professional racing driver, but I've done all of those things on multiple different cars in multiple environments. It sounds like you haven't.

Try actually driving a 355 hard instead of reading magazine articles on it and then comment on it. Isn't that exactly what you say to people who don't slavishly love the 348?

 

Morning Bob. No, I say people should just drive the 348, I don't say they should enter Le Mans in one. Throwing back your argument, how many 348s have you driven in competition? How many have you driven at all, for that matter?

Brightness and contrast vs feel and feedback? I kind of see where you're coming from but not being an expert I didn't know you can set up a car so that the force you exert to move the tyres is small but the force acting in the other direction is undiminished. I thought caster was so that the force exerted by the tyres increases with speed and so doesn't get super light at very high speed, ie straight line. Can't see how it'd increase feedback going round the corners and lower speeds. If it does, I stand corrected, mate. Just didn't think it worked like that.

Anyway, you clearly do know more about this stuff than me, no doubt. And I'm not one that says the 355s feel is bad - feel and feedback is probably the most important thing to me in a sports car and I damn well almost bought a 355, superb car, really do like them. The chap earlier, from Malaysia I think, test drove both and prefered the 348. He posted as much and was pretty much shouted off the forum from what I heard. I test drove both, happened to find the same. I'm a tad more stubborn and I'm still here. Our views on which we prefer the feel of are not wrong - they are subjective, maybe not be your view, but they are not wrong.

The 348 has suffered in the past by being put down as rubbish, not by people like Pete, who's just joking (I think) but by people who firmly hold this view. Due to their more limited numbers few of those people have actually driven one, not talking on a race track, talking driven them at all. I was told squarely, don't buy one, but when I checked not one of those people had driven a 348. That's why I say drive one then make a decision. I drove a 355 and my impression was 'awsome!' Slightly prefer the 348 though. I really don't need you to agree with me on that but at least I tried both before I made a choice.

I hope this is coming over in a measured friendly way, because that's how it's meant. I just did the old fashioned thing of drive a few cars and bought the one I liked the most. That happened to be the 348. A big part of that was the feel and feedback of the steering but if you're telling me a 355 can be made to feel the same without simply putting 348 steering in, guess I'll have to take your word for it. If you work out the numbers etc I would put it out on the forum, though, because I have spoken to numerous 355 owners who might be interested. Several I have spoken to have said things along the lines of "love my car, the only thing that lets it down is the feel of the steering." Go get a solution out there, you'll be a popular chap.

That's about me, Bob. I'm not saying the 348 is better than a 355 (might get stoned in these parts for comments like that) merely that I prefer the feeling of driving one. Having driven both I felt the 348 was more involving and that I could feel what the front tyres were doing more. I don't need or even particularly want you to agree but everyone's entitled to their opinion and that's mine. Hope you have no particular issue with that.

Pete

 

So, you had a good sleep, then?