348 Timing Belt Failure?????

I don't know either, so I am wanting to know also,

 

I don't think you will get many if at all. However I have no doubt that there will be some independent tec come on and say he currently has 4 in his workshop with broken belts. This helps to feed the monster/myth and keeps the Ferrari tax wheels going

 

can we lock this thread? No need for another one of these, is there?

 

Judging by what I have read on this section. If we locked all multiple repeat threads, there would be very little left to read

 

The belts themselves are pretty damn tough. Unless a pulley fence, or a bearing seizes up, they can go for a long time if the car is driven regularly. And by that I mean driven almost daily.

 

+1 Or a bearing fails altogether. On my 348 the rear (roller) bearing on the driven shaft for the main cam gear failed. When that failed the driven shaft canted to one side putting slack in the belt, and well from that you know the rest of the story. That rear roller bearing now has an upgrade to a ball bearing unit. Anyone changing belts should check this bearing. Also should check the wear pad (rubbing shoe) on the cam chain tensioner. Everyone talks about changing belts but I don't see mention of checking the other areas that can cause catastrophic failure. Crazy!

 

Good points Chuck.

 

Don't mean to hijack the thread....but can we include in the discussion/survey 355's ?

Is there more wear and tear on the 348 than the 355 ? .....or since we have more parts, more chances of one of idlers failing !

 

My independant (non-dealer) mechanic opined that my '91 348 T-belt was likely original. That was in 2008 with 37k miles.

 

The belts don't usually fail by way of them breaking completely...more often the "teeth" shear off and the change in timing is what causes the collision of valves with pistons. I have not seen one specific to the 348, but seen and discussed plenty on just about every other Ferrari made with both owners of the car in question and techs. Entirely up to you and what you are comfortable with, but there is much more to the service than just the belts....plus a ton of stuff that can be more easily accessed and inspected while the engine is out. Best to you Howard and your new acquisition.

 

.... I poked and probed these fcar guys on the belt service issue pleading for real data ... The real answer is that almost nobody has ever popped a belt ... All the peripheral stuff they will rant about is just centered around service folks compelling a group of guys that are easily made to feel like they're not doing what they should for their baby and have the money so they spend and spend telling themselves it's insuring against something really expensive occurring ... But they don't really run the numbers because all they do is spend the money prospectively and regardless if it's broken or not ... Sorry guys ... You're a fine bunch and very helpful and knowledgeable ... But somewhat anomalous in this way ... It dampens many of your ownership experiences, it misrepresents the cars reliability and drives down values ...

 

Well I figure that with all the rest of the F-car problems I have had - the timing belt service is probably peanuts in the end...

 

Good point and I agree. had my 92 348 for 41/2 years now and done about 15,000 km's reasonably regularly, say every other weekend (whenever sunny and time permits) and I'm not a track junky, just normal (well maybe just a bit of not so normal road use ) Engine seems perfect, runs perfectly with not a wet mark or oil seep under the lid at all.. But had one Ferrari mechanic recently say I should be doing the belt every 2 years regardless putting the fear of god right up me !!!!! Would love to see a table (with these 3 columns) filled in by as many 348 owners as possible who have changed a belt (or not yet changed a belt).

How many Km's done..................Over what time......................Driving style

Then we may be able to paint a more realistic picture or at least identify a trend...! After all the model is going on 20 years old now there must be enough 'real' data to make a decision on this !?!?!?!?! and avoid filling the pockets of the unscrupulous mechanics who see it as a 'cash cow' service and scare the crap out of us and would have us do it yearly if possible !!! (no offence to the reputable ones !)

 

My daily driver is booked in for it's first cam belt change and will have it done as per the service schedule - at 80,000 miles!

Got to say, though, I wonder if it's the service itself that guys object to or is it the cost? As has been pointed out earlier a 'belt change' is hardly all that is involved in the full schedule. I have no issue with the engine coming out every 3 years (wasn't it changed from 2 to 3 by Ferrari? not sure....) to have a good look over it as well as several parts changed, what I would object to is the prices some places seem to charge. Recently got a quote from my Ferrari main dealer for an engine out cam belt service on my 348, including everything on the Ferrari service schedule, for £1,600 ($2,600). That's parts, labour, tax, the lot, performed by Maranello trained techs. My annual there (again performed as per the Ferrari service schedule) just cost me £400. I could get either done cheaper by an indie here in the UK but like the main dealer near me.

Is it really the service itself that you guys are upset with?

 

I'm upset that I can't get a no-surprise major done for $2600! Jealous!!!! If I could get it that cheap it wouldn't piss me off so much.

 

+1

 

£1600 for an engine out major on a 348 is really the bargain of the year. I don't suppose that they did valve timing while they were at it? I think that the Ferrari man hours for a 355 major is around 40..............shouldn't be too different for a 348. In any case, well done.

 

Not really over here. The indies dropped their prices a few years back, now the main dealers have had to do the same to stay in touch. They also have had to start offering fixed price servicing for the same reason. My Main Dealer actually 'imports' cars from Europe, ships them themselves and returns them to the owners because they can do it cheaper than owners can get their cars serviced on the continent. Some examples of the prices the indies charge:

http://www.monzaautomotive.com/services.php
http://www.sbraceengineering.co.uk/ferrari_service.html
http://www.shiltechperformancecars.com/ferrari-servicing.html
http://www.damax.co.uk/ferrari-servicing-geometry-set-up/
http://www.dkeng.co.uk/servicing/Contemporary_Ferrari_Servicing_.html

Admittedly a couple of those are not strictly speaking Ferrari Indies, they do other cars as well, but the likes of Damax also look after Ferrari racing GTs while places like DK Engineering are very much a Ferrari outfit and are very highly regarded - feel free to look around

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-z-MQnJVgM[/ame]

I guess it's all about supply and demand as well as what people will pay. Not knocking the places over there, you've probably got some extra taxes on top of what we pay, but the servicing costs over here are just not close to what they are over there. A few years back an engine out cam belt service at my main dealer would have cost maybe 2 or 2 1/2 times as much as it does now but the market has forced the prices down.

 

40 hours for a 355 major is ridiculous. There are DIY's that only take 4 hours to take the engine out and 4 to put it back in, what do they do for the other 32 hours? In reality, it should not take much longer than pulling the interior out of a 360 to get to the cam belts, but apparently these shops have snowed everyone into thinking it takes a week to pull an engine and put it back in a 355. Hell, I swapped engines, including taking it out of the old car, in a 944 in 10 hours. There's no way in hell it'd take longer than that in a 355 that is made to have the engine removed quickly.

 

Have you done a 355 engine out major service including cam timing?

 

My guess would be no...

 

My thought exactly.
I guess everyone that fixes these cars for a living simply must all be thieves.....