Hi, First, I think that I must to present me to you before asking my technical question. I apologize for my poor english. I own a 246 GT - M série - 1971 - N°1310, that I have restored during five years. I have found a lot of help by reading all your threads. If I must thank someone, I think particularly of OMGJON for his splendid restoration explained with a lot of pics, and John CORBANY for his explainations always exact and precise. Unfortunately, John isn't on our earth since few years, and I regret not to meet him. I'm sure that if I have could meet him, he will be my friend. In summary, many thanks to you together. Now a few pics of 1310, after restoration, after a lot of rust, a lot of holes on the body, a lot of mechanical problems etc : Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
My question is : I have found that the lower ball joint of the left and right front suspension can play vertically about 5 mm. (See pics) Is it normal ? Thanks in advance for your answer. Best regards Gildas Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Gildas In my opinion, no it is not normal and shows excessive wear. I would guess the lower ball joints are quite old as they have the grease nipples attached, most modern ball joints are factory sealed nowadays. Check the top joints as well, when replacing them make sure you note exactly where the shim spacers are fitted either side of the suspension arms & ball joints. These are critical for castor angle. (check the parts book and you will see them, normally 4 top, 4 bottom) Afterwards i would definately take your car to a specialist in laser wheel alignment and get them to check the cars camber, castor, toe in, and steer ahead. My car was well out of adjustment, it makes a big difference to the handling of the car. Check before you go that they have the necessary shims to adjust if necessary. These are the ones where the suspension arm bracket is bolted to the chassis. Ball joints can be obtained from Superformance UK Ltd Tony your english is just fine 206 / 246 SUSPENSION Superformance ferrari dino ferrari v6 ferrari v12 specialists 308 246 206 fiat dino 355 328
Tony, Many thanks for your answer. I have forbiden to explain how I have found this play : It's only possible to see this play when the body car is on his jack, the wheel touching not the floor. To see the play, you must lift the wheel with a level. The play is enough important (5 mm). In consulting the repair manual, it seems that there is no part (red star on pic) above the lower half ball (black star on pic). In these conditions, the play would be normal. On my car, there is no horizontal play, only vertical. The lower ball joints seem in good condition, so I hesitate to replace them by new with the same play. It's why I have ask for this question. Best regards Gildas Image Unavailable, Please Login
Gildas You should not get any axial or radial movement when the car is on the ground because the ball joints are loaded. Raise the car on a jack (with axle stand under chassis) and grab the wheel top and bottom. Now push and pull to see if there is movement. Make sure the wheel bearing is not loose, then If there is play you will feel a slight knocking noise. In the UK we have a ministry road test every year for cars over 3 years old. Do you have a similar test in France? if so what did they recommend? Over here it would possibily fail. Tony, nice car by the way PS fobidden should be forgotten
For safety and performance I would say you must do everything Tony suggests without delay. In addition, whilst everything is in pieces I would check the steering rack for play in the bush at the opposite side to the steering wheel - in my experience everything wears out together, mine was hopelessly worn. When I re-assembled it the steering was a transformation. Nick
"In the UK we have a ministry road test every year for cars over 3 years old. Do you have a similar test in France? if so what did they recommend?" Yes, every two years, but there is no test on road, and it's during the last control that we have found the problem. The controller recommend nothing. For him, it's normal because there is no play when the car is on his suspension (as you say) and this is without consequences on road, . The wheel bearings are loose. There is no noise, never. There is no movement other than the vertical play, when I push or pull the wheel when the car is raised on a jack. I think that the alone response would be to try the same test with an other car before I decide to remplace the ball joint by new. Best regards. Gildas PS : I apologize for my mistake "fobidden should be forgotten"
Nick, Thank you for your answer. You recommend to me : "For safety and performance I would say you must do everything Tony suggests without delay", and you are right. It's why I have stopped to drive until I know if it is normal or not. The price of twice lower ball joint is only 240, 250 euros, so it isn't a problem to replace them. But I want to understand the reason of this play, because it will be stupid to buy new lower ball joints which would have the same play if this one was normal. Concerning the steering rack, you have perfectly reason : The right ball joint of my car (car with left hand drive) of the genuine steering rack had a play. So I decide to replace it by a new, waiting for to know how replace the worn right ball joint by a new (see pics). Do you know if the method to replace it has already be explained in ferrarichat ? If no, may be it will be the moment to open a new subject. Best regards Gildas Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Gildas No need to apologise, your English is a lot better than my French! I can only give you my opinion from my experience and I would be concerned if there was movement in the ball joint, vertically or otherwise. If you are confident the joints are OK then thats your decision, from a safety point of view I would change them. The difficult bit is breaking the tapered seal that connects the balljoint to the hub. The best way is to remove one and check, i would bet you the balljoint is screwed! The only downside is that removing them you most certainly will damage the rubber gaiter. Tony
there seems to be a lot on steering racks, a quick advanced search http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/206-246/302835-replacement-inner-tie-rods.html From experience a new rack is much quicker and less stressful. Recommend the 4 wheel laser aligment afterwards
Its not the ball joint I am meaning although certainly check them. I am referring to the bush within the rack casing that the inner rack runs in, I think it is made from acetal (a plastic) from memory. Turn the steering fully to the right assuming LHD and with the track rod end disconnected push the fully extended rack up and down, if there is movement between the inner rack and the outer casing I would change the bush inside. This means a full rack rebuild, but it is worth it.
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It will cost a lot of money to ship them and dont forget ...import duty. Not worth it. Try Ferrari 246 GT/GTS: Steering & Suspension: Steering & More: Steering & more - List 720 euros approx. Tony
Ask Jacques in that auction and find out about costs - I have been using his suspension parts on my Dino for 6 years and have been very happy. PS - I see you have a TUBI exhaust - lovely sound!
The whole set of suspension parts are now just $19! FERRARI DINO 206 246 WIRING HARNESS, FERRARI 246 DINO 304T STAINLESS STEEL EXHAUST SYSTEM items in Maseratisource store on eBay! Distributor caps, bushes and engine mounts plus others start at just $19 too (scroll all the way down)
The ball is worn in its socket, thus the free play, eventually it will pull out. I am surprised you don't hear a thumping bumping noise over sharp low speed bumps. It is certain they must be replaced. It is dangerous.
