Eye of Mine HD glasses. Inexpensive but decent video. Wear them just like sunglasses or shop safety glasses. Thanks! I hope to make more as time allows. I remember reading somewhere they are progressive but not for sure??? Good points. I figured out the spray lubricant later and cleaned with brake cleaner spray as you suggested but did not include in original video. A tech suggested the hammer tap but it was not effective. A pair of wrenches worked much better. I started with 4 turns but each one was a little bit different to get the measurement points perfect at each corner. Lowering by 10MM resulted in an increase negative camber of approximately -0.3 degrees on the front and -0.4 degrees on the rear. Add this to the gains in negative camber by removing the upper washers front and rear and I ended up at -2.2 front and -2.6 at rear. Goal was -2.5 squared. Lowering the car also affected toe-in by a significant amount. The rear LCA's were good at camber from the washer removal and lowering. The front LCA's required a 1.5 MM shim on the forward block and a 2.0 mm shim on the rearward block. This got us pretty close to our goal of -2.5. We tried other combos but this seemed the best we could get without making our castor sweeps too far apart. First pic is OEM (pre), before (after UCA washer removal front and rear), after (washer removal and toe adjustments. Second pic is following the 10 MM lowering at all corners. Notice affect on toe and camber from the lowering. Third pic is after adding LCA shims on the front and adjusting toe on front and rear. Ready for track time!
OEM (pre) Before (removed UCA washers front and rear) After (final alignment specs prior to lowering and shim availability) Image Unavailable, Please Login
Following washer removal UCA front and rear AND lowering spring perches 10 MM all corners. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Final alignment settings: Removed UCA washers front and rear Front LCA shims (added 1.5 mm forward and 2.0 mm rearward to OEM shims already in place) Rear LCA shims factory left alone Adjustments to toe front and rear and centered steering wheel Image Unavailable, Please Login
A little bit of bump stop isn't all that bad. Bump steer is another thing. Might as well let me know where to source those stiffer springs. That will probably be the next thing on the list. 😄
Attached the allignment-chart from the scuderia, values are different to the F430. Then three examples: challange1, challange2 and corsa piloti. Maybe you will find additional interesting input. Have fun on the track! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Our alignment machine only had the F430 values loaded but we had specific targets in mind so it didn't matter that much. These charts are great info to have! Does anyone know what tires, springs, and suspension height measurements were used on the 4 set ups you posted? Cross link to another thread with pics of tire wear at the track on OEM factory alignment and Corsa System tires: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/415508-rosso-tires-after-one-day-track.html
I sort of cringed when I saw the wrenchew so close to the brakes. One slip of the wrench and you might damage one of your rotors, which would be VERY expensive. Is there a way to possibly protect the rotors during an operation like this?
Regarding the charts: I'm not sure on which tires exactly the stricter settings are aligned. For myself, the standard Scuderia setting (Scuderia sheet) fits very well with my driving-style, I'm happy with car handling and behavior, especially at the limit. I visited also your tire-thread. This kind of problem is not known to me (M PS, M PSS). I can show you a picture of my rear tire after a six minute stint - full of bubbles across the whole tire surface. Please allow me the following remark to the other settings: The other settings are quite aggressive, are designed for race tires and typically generate a chain of changes. For instance, race tires with a lot of more grip in combination with such aggressive setups produce a much higher load fore the entire vehicle, especially while braking. My race-specialist has advised me that if I want to go with the Scud this way it suggests itself to adjust the entire car consistently to the new requirements, load and consequences - and this will be very expensive. Then the question is allowed to invest direct in a Challenge car. However, have fun on the track with your beautiful Scud an please don't push your lowered car into the spring stop, that would be not very pleasant at the limit. ;-)
Your knuckles do that job quie nicely 😃 Thanks for the feedback. I am excited to see how these settings work as well. Hopefully we will have all things balanced out: tires, alignment, suspension, and brakes. The rest is up to me. The good thing is that the changes can be easily reversed if needed. I can put it all back to OEM in less than an hour while at the track and only have to adjust front toe. LongAcre's toe and camber gauges will do that quite nicely.
Well, that escalated in a hurry! Just found out that the Pirelli Trofeo R compound rear tires did not make it to the US in their last shipment container. Bob Winword had a bunch of sets ordered and none of the 285's came in! Plan "B". Pirelli Slicks. Same compound (TH) that the Challenge cars will be using. Oh boy. This will get fun in a hurry. May be a bit much for the stock springs? Plan "C". Another set of Pirelli Corsa System tires. Plan "D". Finish off existing Corsa System tires and then go to plan B, C, or E. Plan "E". Use my new Michelin Pilot Super Sport street tires. What do you think?
I suspect the slicks would be too much. Personally I think I'd wear out the remainder left of the Corsa tyres. It might actually be the better way to go overall (in terms then that the alignment / height is the only thing changed since your last outing?). Your call of course.
Plan E. I have been on the track with those tires and they are amazingly sticky but at the same time very forgiving and good in the wet.
See it like cavlino and FerrariDublin. I guess you don't have to win a race, let it be with the slicks. Take the old ones (D) or go direct with the new M PSS (E), an excellent tire for a standard Scud on track. And then give full throttle, you don't have to preserve the M PSS. As I've read you are in the comfortable situation that you can use a beautiful new trailer for the ride at home. ;-)
Yes, height and alignment is the only thing I have changed. Will finish off the Corsas first, then change to some Hoosier R6 slicks and see what happens. If they are too much, then will have the M PSS as a great alternate backup. Thanks for all the input!
Road America track follow up. See the following thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142488638-post1.html Image Unavailable, Please Login
Awesome to see it being used on the track, it really makes the ownership experience so much more rewarding.
What mode on the mannettino are you gentlemen running the car in on the road? I'll tell you why in a moment: As a matter of course I send whatever Ferrari I get straight to a dealer (normally Joe Macari in London) who has experience running challenge cars and campaigning Ferraris in motorsport. I then ask the dealer to give the car the ride height and suspension settings including geometry which "Ferrari really intended the car to have when it was developed." The car is then almost always lowered (both front and rear), rake dialed in, and a revised geometry completed which normally dials out a huge amount of understeer and makes the car far more neutral (as opposed to "safe" where you get maximal understeer and then the car breaks away fast when you adjust throttle/line mid corner). Now, someone earlier rightly said that lowering the car takes energy out of the spring - I think that's true but don't fully understand why. The point is, my cars never come out of race mode - keeping the dampers stiff permit the car to run lower without scraping - this is what I do on the Scud/16M. On my 430 Spider, I bought stiffer shorter Novitec springs but still kept the car in race mode all the time. On the Scud, you'd never change the very expensive titanium springs on the car.... Just a thought.
Search for DIY lowering a Scud thread. Turn the perches down 4 turns (11 mm). This will provide more negative camber. Remove the upper control arm spacers if you want even more negative camber. Fine tune camber by using OEM shims. Then adjust toe....front and rear. Pretty sure that race mode does not make the springs stiffer. It just tightens up the rebound of the shock. There should be no difference in front end dive between Sport or Race modes. If you have trouble with front end scraping, then you have the car too low or too much aft rake. Placing some spring packer shims could help but this is really getting a bit much for a street application. Scud springs are not titanium material. I can tell you from experience that lowering a Scud 4 turns, adding the most negative camber you can get without longer control arm bolts, and running slicks will not cause the front end to scrape on a track. Street driveways and crappy roadways are another matter.
Hi there, Thank you for sharing. Do you know what is the correct way to measure the ride height or the scuderia? I have the factory spec sheet showing the ride height front 114mm and rear 136mm. But I'm couldn't get the correct place to measure. Thank you for your help in advance.
Ferrari suggest that each seat should be weighted with about 150 lbs of ballast and about 50 lbs in the trunk for proper height measurements and for proper height alignment purposes. That might be a bit over the top, but one should bear in mind that when lowering the vehicle w/o such ballast weight that the car will sit a bit lower with driver and then again slightly lower with passenger. For the 360: Front: ahead of the front wheel at the structural member body side of the wheel and just forward of the lower A frame securing bolt. There is a rubber drain tube there. Measurement is just behind that tube on the aluminum frame. Rear: forward of the rear wheel at the structural member body side of the wheel which is right below the curve of the lower air scoop as seen from the external side of the vehicle.
I just finished doing this on my scud.....i'm @ 121mm front now and 133mm rear......so total rake of 11mm. all that took was 4 full turns of the spring perch to squeeze the spring more. strongly recommend anyone that tries this buys 4 small drip pans so you can be generous with the lube AND the brake cleaner once ur done. and you'll want to lube the threads at least 2-3x in 10 minute intervals before you even start. otherwise it's an arm workout and when that wrench slips....OUCH!
