348 engine out major | Page 7 | FerrariChat

348 engine out major

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ernie, Feb 22, 2014.

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  1. surfwolf

    surfwolf Formula 3
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    Great details & pictures Ernie! I was stressing heavily that the engine out major on my 1995 348 Spider is 5 years from the last one (3000+ miles). I am still getting it done in the next month, but I will have much less stress after seeing the pics from your 9.5 year belt. Awesome!
     
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  2. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #152 ernie, Feb 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #153 ernie, Feb 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    With the idler bearing off you can now remove the rear belt cover, exposing the idler bracket I was talking about earlier.

    As you can see there are 2 nuts, on the right holding the bracket to the block. The retaining bolt goes through the bearing, through the bracket, and gets screwed into the block. So if you try and pull the bearing without something in the bolt hole for a fulcrum, you run the risk of snapping the bracket in half. I had to learn this the hard way. So be sure to use a long socket in the retaining bolt hole, or whatever, when pulling the idler bearing.
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  4. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #154 ernie, Feb 24, 2014
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  5. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #155 ernie, Feb 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    With the tensioner and idler bearings removed I had a feel of them.

    When checking the bearings I'm feeling for ANY kind of lateral movement, and for smoothness. The tensioner bearing didn't feel rough, but it had a tiny bit of play in it. The older bearing on the other hand had lateral play in it, and felt a little bit rough. This explains the squealing I heard a few of times at start up.
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  6. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #156 ernie, Feb 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And here we see rubber from the belt that got burned to the bearings as there were beginning to fail.

    This is why I will not be waiting almost another decade before I change the belt, and more importantly the bearings. Had one, or both of those, seized up solid the belt could have burned up to the point of it snapping = the pistons and valves playing UFC with one another.
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  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #157 ernie, Feb 24, 2014
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    While I was checking bearings I had a feel of the water pump bearing, and it had some play in it. Last time I did the belt the water pump bearing felt just fine. No lateral play, and spun smoothly so I left it be.

    This go around I was not so lucky. You'll see more on that in a bit.
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  8. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #158 ernie, Feb 24, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
    The belt and the bearings, the belt and the bearings…………. hmmmm.

    I can understand why Ferrari recommends changing the belt every 3 years/30K miles. My opinion is because of the belt stretching, which can throw the time off, be it ever so slightly, but it will be out of spec. So to keep the timing as perfect as possible slap a new belt on every 3/30 which ever comes first.

    For me I think thats over kill. Yeah my timing was off 1/2 a notch, but big whoptydo. At our Stooge dyno day, about 2 years ago, I still made the most power. Yeah it's not perfect, but I'm not trying to win the Challenge Series. I can understand if I was racing the car full time, or turning 9000 rpm regularly, then yeah. Heck I may even change the belt every season. But I'm not, so I'm not worried about the timing remaining ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. The belt is tough, really tough, and took all the punishment I handed it.

    Now the bearings on the other hand, that is where the real danger is in my opinion. Those things failing can cause a whole lot of damage. Any one of them could seize up and wreak havoc. It could be the water pump bearing, or the idler bearing, or the tensioner bearing. The thing is they are not in an easy location to inspect or change. You must remove the engine to check them properly in my opinion. Changing them out every 3/30 will ensure they are running like brand new, but again, for ME that is over kill.

    Would I push it 9 years plus again?
    Nope.
    Will I be changing stuff out every 3/30?
    Nope.

    For me, again, for ME……… I think I'll stick to the old 5/50, and whatever the milage ends up being at that point, is what it is. But that is just ME. I don't think I'd wait any longer because of the issue I had with the water pump. And no it wasn't because of the bearing. You'll see more about that on the next go around.

    So for today, your friendly neighborhood Stooge is checking out.
     
  9. Serpent Driver

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    Great write up! How many miles are on the belts?
    In my opinion it's wear from use that is essential. Belts can take aging very well.
     
  10. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Around 30,000 miles +/-.
     
  11. MS250

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    I think a few things come Into play with that.

    If the car sits , the belts and bearings stay stagnant longer.

    If you start the car often, meaning, it doesn't sit for 3 months at a time before you fire it up, it should be better.

    I still lean towards 7yrs myself.

    Great write up earnie !
     
  12. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The longest my belt sat in one place was 2 weeks short of a full year, and several 3-5 month stints. I'm telling you I was HARD on the thing. THEN I would STILL do dyno pulls with it. The belt can take a beating.
     
  13. MS250

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    And you still got 9.5 yrs out of it .... That is outstanding real life information !

    I'm wondering if this is what led to the 1/4 stretching ?

    I am on a full 7 yrs on my Testarossa, coming soon I will post my findings.

    Thank you for this thread !
     
  14. vvassallo

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    Very cool and thorough write-up. Now that you have that thing out and up on blocks, are you gonna put it back together or is it now a permanent fixture in your Oxnard garage? :p
     
  15. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #165 ernie, Feb 24, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
    Thanks.

    The date number on the old belt is 2203171. So then that means the belt was made the first week of June, 2002. The last three numbers 168-171 are the position of the belt in the production run.

    So even though I had the belt on my car for 9.5 years, the belt was actually 11 years old by the time I took it off.

    That is one tough belt!

    The code for the new belt 09282108 is read a little bit different. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/138215700-post28.html
    The first two numbers 09 are the year = 2009
    The next two 28 are the week = last week of July
    And the next number 2 is the day of that week = Monday the 27
    The last three numbers 108-112 are the belt position inside the mold.

    So my new belt is already 4.5 years old. Should I buy a newer one? Naw I'll Stooge it and still use it. Especially after how tough the last belt was.
     
  16. davebdave

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    Excellent information. I'm convinced, 2014 is the year I'll do the belt, bearings/water pump. My only fear is that once I get started it will be "on blocks" for an extended period of time.

    Dave
     
  17. Bertil

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    When looking at my new Dayco belt I got the other day, the code is 12 265039.
    Does this mean year 2012 week 26? I'm prepairing for a major for my 348.
    Bertil
     
  18. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yeah that sounds right to me Bertil.
     
  19. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #169 ernie, Feb 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Let's get back to this major service.

    Just to get them out of the way I remove the valve cover gaskets. I used a plastic putty knife the get them off. The white stuff you see is ThreeBond. I used it to seal the gaskets last time. It works ok, but I have found Hondbond HT works better.
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  20. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #170 ernie, Feb 25, 2014
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    With that out of the way I'm gonna remove the water pump.

    First up is loosening the clamps for the center hose connoting the pump to the crossover pipe running to the heads.

    It is a straight piece of Gates hose (if I remember correct) 609. I got it from NAPA auto parts. I actually asks for the Gates Green Strip, and they gave me this. It held up just fine. Other than the clamp marks it's still in decent condition.
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  21. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #171 ernie, Feb 25, 2014
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  22. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #172 ernie, Feb 25, 2014
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    With the neck removed it exposes the thermostat. To take the t-stat out you simply grub hold of the bridge and lift it out.

    And those of you why may be wondering, You do not need to remove the engine to change the thermostat. It can be done with the engine in stu. Matter of fact this thermostat is the same one I put on in this link. ->http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q/385608-348-thermostat-removal.html So I will be reusing it when this go back together.
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  23. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #173 ernie, Feb 25, 2014
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    Now the 4 allen bolts holding the pump to the the engine get removed.

    When you remove them pay attention to the length of the bolts, what holes they come out of, and you can even mark them for reassembly. The reason is because they are two different lengths, and if you put them in the wrong holes the pump won't get tightened back down properly.
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  24. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #174 ernie, Feb 25, 2014
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  25. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #175 ernie, Feb 25, 2014
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