Stradale Buyers - BEWARE!

I want to start by saying that the car itself, as far as I know, is fine. It's the representation, and the people behind it, who are disgusting, and shouldn't be trusted. Also, this is gonna be a long post - so I apologize in advance...


Back in late March, I was contacted through Facebook by Matt O'Connor, a young guy in Arizona who, apparently, sells cars for a living. He routinely sends me VINs of Ferraris for my database; Ferraris he sees and/or sells - and this thread will ensure that he never sends me anything in the future - but this scam, and all of its perpetrators, need to be outed.

Anyway, in late March, Matt contacted me and said he had another VIN for me, "but there are complications." He said it was a car to which he had access to sell, but he was put under an NDA, and legally couldn't disclose the VIN, or say where it was and how he got it, unless I, too, signed an NDA.

"Send it over!" I said; I had no problem with signing it, and was rather intrigued. After I signed it and e-mailed it back to him, he said the car in question was ZFFDU57A040139182, the Stradale that used to be stored at Paul Walker's shop, Always Evolving Performance, in Valencia, CA; Paul didn't own the car ...but it was owned by Roger Rodas. So now, Roger's widow wants to sell it, and the asking price was $215,000.

A week later, a fellow FerrariChat member (who will go unnamed unless he wants to post in here himself) contacted me about a different Stradale that he was considering buying. But in the end he said, "It's a no go - but if you find a good Stradale keep me in mind."

So I said, "Actually, I know of one for sale..." And that began the start of what I thought was going to be a promising arrangement.

I went back and forth between Matt and the prospective buyer, negotiating to close the gap between the asking price and what the prospective buyer wanted to pay. The prospective buyer actually became more flexible with what he was willing to pay once he learned the car was owned by Roger Rodas. I should note here that I know the buyer, and we even have mutual friends. I once went to the Auto Gallery to inspect a different Ferrari for this guy, and I know the cars in his collection - it's a big collection, and it pales in comparison to his other interests. He's not a tire kicker; he could probably check his couch cushions and find the money to needed to buy this car. So when we started negotiations, I knew starting low was just that: starting. He asked me if the seller would take $180-190K.

I went to Matt and asked what the lowest was that Mrs. Rodas would take for 139182. He said "probably $210." I asked if she would consider $190K - he said, "I'm calling the broker, and seeing what his bottom line is." So Matt wasn't the only broker on that of the deal; he was going through someone else, who wanted to remain anonymous, even though he was supposed to be representing the car for Mrs. Rodas. This mystery prick later turned out to be some schmuck named Mark from Old American Iron. I threatened to sue, I even gave him all of my contact information to forward to his attorney, and the paperwork he promised I would receive in the mail still hasn't arrived.

Anyway, later that same day, Matt got back to me and said the lowest Rodas would go was $200K. I went back to the buyer and he went up to $193K; then, he got more aggressive and increased his offer to $200K - perfect, right? I went back to Matt and said the buyer would go to $200K, but that would include our commission(s).

Later that night, Mark was supposedly admitted to the hospital after an accident, pain pills rendered him incomprehensible, and Rodas still wouldn't go directly through Matt, so we had to wait.

The next day, I explained to Matt that the buyer was serious and ready to pull the trigger. If his offer of $200K was accepted, he would immediately wire $100K; immediately. Matt told me that the other broker "was thinking about it." Two days later, I was told that Mrs. Rodas still hadn't made up her mind.

Two days later, I hear back from Matt - he said, "Apparently, Rodas decided to sell it [139182] to her cousin in an effort to possibly buy it back in the future.. Idk."

So I went back to the buyer and broke the bad news. He immediately replied and said, "Offer $225K." That offer seemed to get everyone's intention, at which point they requested a Letter Of Intent - and to address it to Tim Noblett for some reason (whoever he is, I don't know, his name was never mentioned before the LOI came into the discussion). So the buyer immediately put one together. In the LOI, the buyer stated he was willing to pay between $210-225K depending on miles and condition; does the car come with all original luggage; the money would be wired in full upon inspection before the car is transported; and a $100,000 deposit would be sent immediately.

I sent the LOI, and then heard from Matt the following day:

"Yes. So, we sent over the LOI to attorney, and the family spoke with him. They liked the idea and still love the 225k number, but They weren't exactly thrilled with the 210-225k gap on the LOI. So, I'm working with them in the morning and to get all the details. I have been told the car was shipped to Tahoe to the cousin, and The transfer back to Mrs. Rhodas has to be agreed by a majority of the family or something. So, trying to speak to them first thing to get exactly what's going in that family meeting."​

So I replied:

"There shouldn't be any issue with the mentioned gap in the LOI if the car is as-represented. The LOI is clear about the buyer taking the car at $225K if the car is as-described. And how did the car already get to Tahoe? It was just in Valencia...?!? It's taken multiple days for EVERYTHING to get through to this woman and get approved by her - but she CONSIDERS selling it to her cousin and it gets whisked away to Tahoe on the same day?!? Why do I feel like there isn't full disclosure here?"​

Further discussion reveals that there's another broker involved - another mysterious jerkoff named Leonard. At this point, I ceased with the niceties and resorted to bluntness - where are we with this deal, wtf is it taking so long for her to make a decision, who are these other people and what is their relevance/involvement, do we have a deal or not?!?

A few days later, Matt sends me this message:

"Hey, wish I had better news, but the family has decided to keep the CS. Tell him that I'm sorry about the confusion that happened, and hopefully we can go forward. To try to keep him happy, I am absolutely willing to look for an exact car that wants, whether it would be another CS or another Ferrari for very close or at wholesale value, that I will make little or no commission whatsoever. And the little money that we could possibly make, would go straight to you."​

At that point, I lost all patience. I told Matt to make sure that Mrs. Rodas and/or the mysterious other broker(s) contact me at their earliest convenience. With each passing day, I sent Matt lengthier and more aggressive messages, explaining that legal action seemed like my only logical recourse. A few days later, Matt replies and says, "Call this guy, his name is Mark - (623) 313-3310."

That same day, I hear from the buyer:
"Carbon - I am moving on. Sorry things didn't work out. No offense but wasted too much time and effort to buy a car and felt I dealt 100% in good faith. I don't believe anything the guys you work with is true."

As I said earlier, I called Mark, gave him all of my contact information, and I was promised paperwork from his attorney - my mailbox is still empty, my inbox is still empty, and I have no missed calls.

Ten days ago, the buyer sends me another message:
"I was told by a broker that the Stradale is still in her hands. The reason she didn't sell was she was told it could brong more money. Not sure how much but they want more - 250 275 who knows maybe they will tell you."

The buyer goes on to say that he still wants the car - and that if I can get it done, he'll triple my commission!

So I went back to Matt...

"Who is this Mark fellow, and how and why is he even involved in the first place? I heard today that the Stradale is still with Mrs. Rodas, and that the real reason she didn't sell was because she was told it could bring more money.

Call someone, talk to someone, I don't care what you do - I better get paid, or I'm gonna plaster this whole thing all over the Internet. And it'll take "Mark's" attorneys a long time to get those posts removed - IF he can get them removed - and it'll cost him a LOT of money. People will read and re-read my detailed comments for MONTHS, maybe even YEARS, before Mark's attorneys can MAYBE have them removed. And I will bump my threads as often as necessary, so that people are constantly reading how this whole thing was a scam. I will post the NDA, I will post the LOI, I will post clips of conversations, I will post everything; I will implicate EVERYONE: you, Mark, Old American Iron, Mrs. Rodas, Mark's attorneys - EVERYONE.

And now that we know she still has the car, my buyer is, miraculously, once again interested. If she thinks she can get more, and wants to hold on to the car, fine - I'll go ahead with everything I mentioned above. But if she wants to sell it to the person who submitted an offer, and a binding LOI(!), let's make the sale."​

No reply. Five days later, I sent him another message and said I needed an answer that same day.

Matt's last reply:

"I don't know who your souce is, but what I was told is that Mrs. Rhodas does not have the car any more. They have specifically stated that it is with a cousin. Now, whether that's true or not, I can't confirm or deny it, as I do not have connection directly with the family and never had one. As for selling it goes, she has/had the right to sell it or not. As for everything else, I'm told that Mark will be sending over a few things shortly. I do not know what, when or anything. You'll have to speak to him about that."​

So that's the whole ridiculous story in a nutshell. I'm told I should pursue legal action, since nothing in the LOI stated it was non-binding, therefore it's a bound document on its face value and needs to be honored. If anyone is familiar with the law surrounding these types of issues, I'd be very interested in learning. I will be cross-posting this thread everywhere, as well as tagging Matt O'Connor on Facebook - all in the hopes that these soulless pieces of **** actually try to sue me; at least then I'll get to see everyone's full names on court documents. I personally saw this car in Valencia, CA, two years ago. The pictures I took in March, 2013, were the only ones used in the attempted brokering of this car; Rodas, Matt O'Connor, Tim, Leonard, Mark - no one was able to even provide updated pictures of the car. I don't know if this whole thing was a scam from the very beginning, or if Rodas really did back out in the hopes of selling it for more money, or if she really decided to sell it to a family member with the option of buying it back later on. No matter what, I feel I'm owed compensation - not just for the work I put into trying to make this happen, but also for the business I lost, because the buyer will never again ask me to help him find a car. And I don't blame him one bit.

 

If there was no consideration given, you have no case. This is just another transaction that didn't get completed. Move on. Posting the details is just plain petty.

 

Can you explain that for me?

So if you were in the market for a Stradale, you wouldn't want any foreknowledge that this particular car is being represented by a mess of shady characters? And in the short time since I posted this, I've now learned that there's some ambiguity as to who really owns this car in the first place. If I knew that six weeks ago, I never would have even mentioned it to the buyer.

 

Point 1; layers of people in a deal suck. I cant tell you how many deals have been messed up by too many players, each with a layer of BS. It is like the circle, where you whisper something in someone's ear, and by the time that message makes it around the circle it is not even close to what it started as. I avoid deals like this, since getting to the bottom line, shaking out fact from fiction, and all the other headaches aren't worth it....

Point 2; just because you had a LOI, doesn't mean you had a deal. There was ambiguity on price, terms, and other items that would be needed for a legal battle. Agreement, perhaps.... but, not one strong enough worth pursuing, imo.

Point 3; understandably, you are upset...rightfully so. However, you dont know the owner, the car itself, or perhaps everything behind the scenes. IMO, Calling out the people who snowed you is fine, but dragging a VIN of someones car, who may have no idea about all this hoopla, into a searchable online negative record is not cool.....


Just my 2 cents.....

 

Agreed. Deal fell apart. Move on.

You claim to have "lost business" because your buyer "will never again ask you to find a car.” If true, I doubt it was due anything a seller or a seller's brokers did. If your buyer believes you acted in good faith, then how could your reputation be damaged in his eyes?

Guys with solid car collections are used to negotiating deals, and don't get butthurt (usually) when a deal falls apart.

I submit that you have damaged yourself far more by airing out this story of a deal that fell apart, because fewer buyers will be likely to reach out to you for help.

 

This is just a deal that didn't happen, and so you didn't get paid. Sucks, but that's life.

Carbon, you're hurting yourself more with this thread than any of these mystery brokers. It looks petty. More importantly, it looks like you have a problem with discretion, and that's a likely deal killer for many potential clients.

Just my humble opinion.

 

I know at least two of the parties involved on this one, so I probably don't have an unbiased opinion; but this transaction was a perfect storm...grieving widow, greedy family and family advisors, valuable (and rapidly appreciating) asset, multiple layers of brokers, advisors and attorneys...I would have walked away far before Carbon and his client did.

I think posting the VIN is fine, over time it will become provenance and in the meantime it's a heads up to a potential buyer of what lies ahead.

and I agree, there was no deal, no countersigned contract or money changed hands, so sadly I don't think it's actionable. but I think it's a story worth telling so the Ferrari community knows what's up.

 

Carbon.

You , as much as anyone here, should know that car deals fall apart all the time.

Your buyer got screwed? Maybe.

Seller made some bad choices? Probably.

End of the day, it's just a no-deal.

D

 

I don't want clients for buying and selling cars! I'm not a car salesman! I'm interested in documenting the cars, and I enjoy being hired to do the occasional inspection. I've only ever directly sold two Ferraris - an Enzo and a Queen Mother (both owners were personal friends) - and indirectly assisted in the sale of countless others.

It wasn't my intention to be or look petty (although now that you mention it...) It was my intention to raise awareness of a car that's mired in legal ambiguity. This is no different than my other 'Buyer Beware' threads (like 146563 or 130439) - only thing is, with this one, I'm directly involved. Still, the primary objectives here were to raise awareness, so that no other unsuspecting prospective buyer comes along and is duped into thinking this would be a cut and dry deal; and to kick up some dust - I'm pissed! I'm not some shady wheeler dealer running around trying to sell and flip third party cars. I'm an informationist; a documentarian.

The best part of this whole thing is that in the short time since I posted this thread, I have learned a great deal more about not only this car, but the multiple parties claiming ownership, and the other cars that are also trapped in the same legal quicksand.

 

Dave, honestly, I'm woefully unfamiliar with the ins and outs of deals, and what, if any, legal action is possible when signed forms and documents are involved. That's why I asked - because I just don't know. When I sold the Enzo, it was for a friend, and it took two e-mails in 36 hours - and I thought I was doing someone a favor. A few weeks later, a sizable check showed up in the mail - I didn't even know it was coming! Last year, a friend who was brokering a 275 asked me for whatever information I had on the car in question; I sent it to him, and a few months later I got a wire for $2,500. Those were simple, easy experiences, with trustworthy people. I imagine my reaction to this experience makes me appropriately labelable as naive; a lesson learned. But now I'm armed with more information than I had before, as well as an experience that has instilled a slower, more cautionary approach to any future "opportunities" such as this one.

 

Based on my extensive one semester of business law : P, I also concur that there was no binding contract.

Here is the definition of consideration:

Legal Dictionary | Law.com

Basically you did not give them anything of value (consideration), and they did not agree to give you the car in exchange for that consideration. So there is no contract. A letter of intent is simply that - you saying that you would like to give them something of value (money) for their car.

Now a real lawyer can correct all the little mistakes I just made ; ) ...but that is the basic idea.

Purchasing assets of an estate like this is often messy and can lead to the sellers changing their minds. It sucks, but it happens all the time. People are emotional and the value of the car was going up so people second guess everything.

Sounds like a crap experience for sure, but that's life. Sorry you got jerked around!

However, they will have a legal course of action against you if you violated the NDA as you apparently just have done. Although, it's odd that they would have an NDA to begin with to sell a car. I use to sign and use NDAs all the time in high-tech as we made strategic alliances and investments in various technology and partners. Not sure what there is to be protected here save perhaps their identity which you have now exposed. Might want to fax the NDA to an attorney and have him advise you on this post.

Have a better weekend man!

 

I now have a much better understanding of the paperwork and what it does, and does not, grant or guarantee; thank you.

I'm counting on it!

 

When I bought my CS, I called the seller. We went back and forth on price for a little while til we agreed. I wired the money, he sent me the car.

What's with the attorneys and LOI etc. etc? I think you're making it too complex.

 

He is/was not the one making it complex - reading the post, I am sure he'll be more than happy to discuss it directly with Mrs. Rodas...

 

Carbon ,one door closes and another one opens. It just wasn't meant to be. Let it go bro. Your friend will understand if he's really your friend.

 

I was reading this for some juicy, interesting story....but it wasn't. Just another deal gone sour...BFD. That is the used car business, nothing to see here...and 5 minutes of my life I will never get back...

 

Buyer beware; of what? Estate sale, grieving family, lots of emotion involved. Why would you start a thread like this and not just simply walk away. Sorry, but that's what common sense tell me. I understand you're a documentarian and the community appreciates all you contribute, but some things like this shouldn't be exposed on a public forum. IMHO

 

+1 and why associate a VIN with this? Sounds like a bad seller, not a bad car. No need to soil this cars VIN just because a deal fell through.

 

I don't find anything wrong with Carbon's post.

He is simply informing everyone that if they try to acquire this model, then they are in for a major quagmire.

 

Carbon - I think this has nothing to do with the car and lots to do with a messy estate sale and advisors and brokers. Deals fall apart all the time. I'd ask to delete the thread if rob would do so.

 

I'm not sure I understand. Some of you guys seem ...disappointed... that there's no actual damage. The very first statement in my post is: "I want to start by saying that the car itself, as far as I know, is fine."

Is it any less important to warn about buying a car if the car itself isn't damaged, but rather the people representing it, and maybe even the people who supposedly own it, are themselves damaged - legally damaged?

The VIN is a major point of this thread. If these people continue representing the car, and some other unsuspecting buyer comes along and shows interest - if he just Googles the VIN, this thread will come up, and he'll realize that this car's ownership and owners are drowning in ambiguity and legal complications.

Also, we can add another name to the list of people representing this car: Matt O'Connor's "business partner" Chris Barney - who was stone cold silent during the entirety of the deal, but has all of a sudden become chatty.

 

The biggest issue in my mind is that you violated a signed NDA just because you are pissed off. There is no damages, and no crimes involved. That means there is no valid reason to break the NDA, and it also means that I cannot trust YOU to honor your word.

 

I have good reason to believe that the NDA was fraudulently composed and issued, and since no one would give me any names of anyone else involved, getting them to sue me is the only other avenue to securing the necessary information I require.

 

My legal knowledge tells me that in fact you could definately be sued for breaking the content of a signed NDA.
My advice is remove the thread before anyone relevant sees it.

 

Info you require…


For what?

Good grief. Grow up. This thread didn't do you any good.