F1 won't shift with engine running

Eric: Clutch Pres. Plate travel is 17.357 with engine running. Any thoughts?? Mel

 

Check the sensor side of the transmission input shaft speed sensor. Be sure the pins are all in place. I had one do the same thing. Turned out the center terminal of the connector pushed out some how, and resulted in a no shift. Or it could be the sensor itself gone bad.

They won't throw a code somtimes.

 

A quick check of the battery voltage value is a good way to know if the tool protocols are correct for the TCU - if the wrong software is being used you get something like 42v!

 

Had the similar issue on my car after replacing the clutch. Everything was within parameters and car would go through the learning sequence without any problems but transmission would not engage when running (no gears showing on the dash). We replaced several sensors and the TCU without any success. Rifledriver finally sorted it out, the problem turned out to be two-fold; the replacement clutch was an aftermarket kevlar with different pressure plate so the bite point was outside of expected parameters and the TCU had an intermittent fault and was not the reading the input shaft speed (despite new sensor). Put OE clutch and new TCU and car has been running fine since.

 

Any news???
It would be interesting to know the root cause.

 

Have not had a chance to do anything yet. Going to check the trans input shaft sensor first and I hope that is it. If not, going to look at the new kevlar clutch, but I really don't think that is the problem. I will post on the results. Thanks for checking.

 

Only NOW you decide to mention a Kevlar (non OE) clutch..................

 

Ka Ching!!

 

The most important detail curiously ommited...Perhaps this is a great case study in why most shops will only install and warranty OEM components.

 

So, does that mean "most shops" won't install Hill Engineering bearings, Aftermarket exhaust components, non-Ferrari bought hardware (that still meets specification), intake / exhaust valves, valve guides ???

 

No, that means after you actually troubleshoot/repair an F1 car with aftermarket clutch issues, you'll understand why shops use OEM components. I thought the 30 odd posts made that pretty clear....

 

LOL! So many tech help threads lack critical information. There will be a new one tomorrow.

 

Well there has been discussion re certain HE components within the pros here. Exhaust, only if legally compliant. Valve guides? You argued there is not an issue if I recall? Of course we, like most dealerships will use out sourced when equivalent to OE. With the huge parts price increase just from Ferrari, this may escalate too. eg Clutch position sensor just about doubled in price to over $900

 

Nope, that was not my argument. And, it was no argument at all - I created this thread:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/348-355-sponsored-bradan/519350-poor-compression-high-leak-rate-%3D-bad-valve-guides.html

And within it, I posted facts regarding my particular experience. No point posting the same again and it's all within the thread.

I've had techs tell me personally and I've read it here that everything Ferrari makes is junk and then the same folks (nameless and not you Brian) post to only use Ferrari OEM. I find that a bit bizarre - don't you?

For the record, I don't think Ferrari is perfect and nor do I think any manufacture is. I've seen some Ferrari parts that I feel are excellent quality and some I'm far from in love with.

(and I'm a mechanical engineer and own a contract manufacturing company)

 

The new Kevlar clutch is from GTE and is the exact same thickness as a OEM clutch. Had the OEM flywheel resurfaced .008 to flat, and used a new OEM pressure plate. All wires and connector on the trans speed sensor are OK. Next step is to switch out the TCU which worked perfectly prior to the clutch service. Again, many thanks for all your input and help.

 

Mel are you aware of the break in required for the kevlar clutch. After talking to the guys at vivid racing i dcided against it because the break in they wanted would be more difficult in an f1 setup.

Of course there will be many others i am sure that do not agree.

 

Yes, I am aware of the break in, I just find it hard to believe that just changing the material of the clutch, with all the measurements being exactly like OEM, would cause the car to completely not shift when running. Thanks for your input, Mel

 

Not very fair to tell now that the clutch is not OEM, but probably done on purpose to let us try to help you without focusing on this single point.

That said, if I can understand that a non OEM clutch could cause strange things when trying to engage the clutch because of a very different "transmissible torque vs mechanism position" curve (and provided that ALL dimensions are like OEM), I fail to understand why it would prevent the TCU to select a gear with the engine running and with the clutch actually open (proved by throw out bearing position and by no speed on the input shaft).

 

Sometimes these things are a little sensitive to even the smallest change/error. Going through an issue with one now, changing back to all OE parts as well as changing more than I normally would on a clutch replacement.

Right or wrong, the information about it being a non stock clutch material raises a red flag for me. I do not use these nor the rebuilt ones for a VERY good reason.

 

Not sure if I missed something. Could you explain not shifting when engine

Obviously it starts in neutral.
Will it select first
Will it select reverse

Will it select second

Have you tried low friction mode
How about automatic mode

 

Yes, it starts in neutral It will not select first or reverse or second. It will not select any gear in the low friction mode or auto mode. Thanks for your post and help. Mel

 

Do you have a WSM? As much as most of the manuals can leave a lot to be desired the WSM on the F1 system is fairly comprehensive. I've only had 1 360 completely baffle me and pull my hair out, turned out to be inferior materials in the TO bearing seals that would swell after a short time and cause the clutch to stick, man that was a PITA to figure. But in one way I got a massive education in the F1 system. If you have a copy, I highly suggest sitting down and studying it, make notes. There is a lot of info in there, unfortunately it's not layed out in comprehensive manner like a text book but it's there.

Oh and yeah for odd issues with the F1 system you have to use OEM factory parts to sort it out or you'll forever be chasing your tail. The TCU is programmed to work with the factory parts as designed and nothing else. Seriously.

 

Mel as stated above that is what i reread before posting for you. If you read this section in the wsm you will understand how the system works. I believe some of the diagnosis you have allready gotten deals with the pis and as mel said if thats out of range it will not work.

You might try letting the car warm up good and if might change the clutch temp enough that it will fall within specs.

Good luck

 

Did you fnd a solution yet?

 

Getting close. May be that the Leonardo needs to be re-calibrated. We have got it to shift and have driven it!!! Now trying to adjust the PIS so it won't creep. I will post the results, Thanks for checking in, Mel