Sergio "Ferrari NA V12s Are Here To Stay"

I think it’s possible if they get the differentiation right. The price point of course had to be considerably higher. It would also contribute to higher margins while preserving the Ferrari DNA. Moreover there is no intend to build a successor for LaF any time soon so should be not in conflict with that.

 

I also think that the manufacturer is listening to the customer response. Ferrari cannot be immune from our demand as it is a free market. So if they do sense that the V8 turbo reception is not as well as they assumed, I expect things will change. Look at that 991.2 GT3 being another NA plus manual when the world thought 911R was it. I think this was catapulted by the GT4 feedback.

 

so then what specification this car should have to not go in conflict with other models? How much faster it should be than 488 and 812, how much slower be than Laferrari?

I think that suv or four door saloon like Panamera would be much more possible than mid engine V12

 

let's hope that boss know that people want NA V8 + electric motor

 

And then there will be another dealer game to play. This is such a pain we need to deal with here in US. Lol

 

I do not like SUVs. I would not like Ferrari to make an SUV.
But I'm not stupid and I know that an SUV would sell very well.
If Ferrari make an SUV I think it should have a similar concept to the ItalDesign Guigiaro Parcour that allows to change the height of the body in such a way that it is something similar to a sports coupe in the street and can be an all-terrain in off-road.

ItalDesign Giugiaro Parcour 4x4 Review (2017) | Autocar

 

^ Interesting design, but IMO without real 4 person seating, & a modicum of storage space, it's not likely to satisfy the trophy wife/husband target audience...T

 

Reminiscent of the French Aixam Mega Track V12 in the 1990s

Aixam Mega Track
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^ Reminds me of an old school Bonneville or Impala on oversized rims.
T

 

I don't trust him, or Ferrari as a corporation even at 10% public. It's a creeping disease the corporation.

They don't need sales, but they want more sales. They don't need HP but they want hybrid for more HP. Where is the integrity of purpose?

At a certain point a decision was made to keep Ferrari true to it's identity, or to go this way. Luca left because we are here now ... IMO it's not good and it's too late to stop it.

 

All doom and gloom in fchat, as per usual! LOL!

This Ferrari SUV fear has been spreading in here for years. Have you seen any of them so far? Equally importantly, have you seen a bad Ferrari in the past 20 years and more specifically now that the company trades in the NYSE? Why do we get all this moaning and desperation then?

 

The 812 is the classic front-engined two seater GT targeting customers who are looking more for elegance than pure performance. A mid-engined V12 model could be positioned as the ultimate visceral driving experience (also compared to 488) with a huge price premium. The V12 models are more profitable for them and they mentioned they care a lot about exclusivity per model. Bringing up sales through an additional model is less bad than selling too much of the same model. It has not to be slower than LaF because it’s quite common that range models will come close to limited series performance-wise after a few years (see 458 compared to Enzo).

Of course this is much wishful thinking but I think it’s not far off.

 

Oh yes I remember that car, although at that time I did not accept the SUV in any way.
Now my mind is a little more open.
A few years ago AUDI made its own version of Parcour
Audi Nanuk Quattro Concept Photos and Info ? News ? Car and Driver

Maybe a GTC4 Lusso with this concept would be an interesting SUV without losing all the DNA Ferrari.
Although if they want to sell more units to earn more money I guess a lower cost DINO V6 would sell very well without having to make an SUV.

 

Correct...it would be amazingly easy.
They build a gorgeous little V6 NA car with a stick (the Ferrari Cayman GT4)...sell it for the same price as the California (different customer)...and they would sell thousands upon thousands of these.
Furthermore, I cannot see how doing that would dilute or diminish the brand in any way.

 

Well, the smartphone market is big too. Why wouldn't they want a piece of that?

The real question is - what would Ferrari's sustainable competitive advantage be in building an SUV?

Ferrari needs to do something to realize its goal of 10,000 units, but I doubt this is the direction they'll take. I think it is much more likely that we see a 911-fighter - distilling Ferrari tech & cache into a smaller, lighter high-tech package, with a brand-new design language.

 

I think that SUV is safer option for Ferrari if we talk about resale value of their all models, new V6 Dino would have impact on 488, I think many 488 owners would buy SUV to have Ferrari combo , they would resign from Range Rover and G class for this car

 

In all honesty, the 488 is old news. My garage has 6 Ferrari's in it with my daily driver being an FF or F12. I have no "want" for a 488. Looking at the Huracan with a v10 NA engine, or the new McLaren 720S for $320k well optioned full of carbon fiber, there are other cars in the market now that Ferrari has to compete with.

I was wanting a 488 and would have likely ordered one within the next few months. But likely placing an order for the 720s in the next few weeks. Im tracking one this weekend and want to drive it before I order. But after driving the 675LT (which seems years ahead of the 488) I think the 720s will be a hit.

Ferrari needs to see the competition. Im a die hard ferrari fan and Im starting to look elsewhere!

 

Can you write why Mac is so much better?

 

Ferrari sold, what, 8,000 cars last year? If the company's serious about keeping production capped at 10,000 units per year, adding a 911 fighter—which, presumably, would be the cheapest F-car, which would in turn mean it would likely sell in the greatest number—seems like the wrong direction to go.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to see such a car. A new Dino—compact, mid-engined, packing a revamped version of the Maserati/Alfa turbo V-6—would be amazing. But I just doubt they'll do it if they only plan on selling 2,000 of them per year.

As much as I hate to say it, splitting the current GTC4Lusso into two cars—an old-school four-seat gran turismo and an AWD sedan/four-door hatch/SUV—makes more sense to me. It throws a bone to the purists who want a true GT, while keeping the people who want an all-weather Ferrari with room for everyday life.

 

Ferrari will continue to make V12s. However at what production volumes?

Emission, fuel economy and perhaps future engine displacement regulations may relegate a V12 to tiny production numbers even by Ferrari standards. Also a V12 may become illegal in certain markets.

But I'm glad to hear that Ferrari is committed to their V12 tradition.

 

Great news on sticking with NA V12- even if it gets some hybrid help. I don't think Ferrari will disappoint. The rest is our speculation, which is fun, but its still just speculation. I'm looking forward to what Ferrari does. I agree the new completion is pushing them-so that is good for us!

PS- I don't think V12 will become illegal, I think it will all depend on fuel economy and emissions and I am taking a guess here, but I bet the hybrid system they come up with will allow some amount of electric only driving (15-30 miles?) for the places where they want zero emission driving.

 

Remember the 208? (Euro or Italian market version of 308, one of Ferrari's under square engines)

Italy decided to impose a hefty value added tax based on displacement.Ferrari responded by shrinking the motor and of course the HP. Later when customers complained about the lack luster performance, being beaten by a Fiat at the light, Ferrari added turbos.

If regulations squeeze the size of a V12, some kind of new assist will be also be required.

Since Ferrari is resisting the idea of slapping a twin turbo onto their sacred V12, hybrid technology is their answer.

However in some markets even this may be in vain.

Sweden and several other countries are intending to ban Petrol cars altogether!

 

I do remember the 208. But back then Ferrari was penalized by restrictions imposed on everyone. These days it has an exemption based on relative sales volumes. I suspect this will continue for the foreseeable future.

I've read that Germany wants to ban the sale of internal combustion engined cars by 2030... time will tell.... The only thing I know for sure is we live in an interesting time and what happens will likely deal us a few interesting wrinkles.

 

I've always seen the 10K per year number quoted as an aspirational goal for Ferrari, not necessarily a cap.

If they're currently at 7K to 8K, they have a long way to go to get to 10K - at least 25 percent volume increase.

How do you do that other than just wait a decade or more for the market to expand? You lower average selling price.

So I see the 10K as driving them towards skewing the mix a bit downmarket. I add to that some fundamental tech changes taking place that may push Ferrari towards starting a new line with a clean sheet of paper.

Time will tell.

 

If they surpass 10,000 sales, they won't be excempt from certain EU emissions regulations and I am sure that they wouldn't want something like that to happen...