looking for a 2V 308 head removal tool, | FerrariChat

looking for a 2V 308 head removal tool,

Discussion in '308/328' started by Jet Lag, Sep 22, 2018.

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  1. Jet Lag

    Jet Lag Karting

    Dec 6, 2003
    173
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Robert Bangs
    I had to pull the engine on my 1979 308 GTS because the rear cam belt drive pulley bearing is toast with so much play in the shaft that the inner bearing is more than likely toast as well. vid. Since I've got the engine out, I may as well replace the sodium exhaust valves with stainless steel valves, and possibly work on the cylinders (I've got one cylinder that a leak-down indicates worn rings). The heads are as stuck on as you would expect of a 39 year old aluminum engine that has never been apart before. I've been applying a 50/50 mix of ATF & acetone on the head studs and block/ head seams applying heat and shock to the studs; and pounding a 2 x 4 with a 3 lb sledgehammer with very little results. It looks like I’m going to need some sort of puller. Before I have a machine shop make up a plate/ head removal tool, does anyone in the US have a made-up head removal tool for a 2V 308 that you are willing to lend, rent, or sell? Any advise will also be very much appreciated
     
  2. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,520
    London, UK
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    Derek W
    Check out my blog. I hung the transaxle a few mm above hard foam covered floor from the head, then used two scissor jacks. Maybe string into the middle cylinders and turn carefully or air pressure into the plug holes. Perhaps few things at once.
     
    waymar likes this.
  3. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,324
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    The rope trick worked for me on outside cylinders little bumps and i alternated sides with little bumps.
     
  4. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2010
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    Derek W
    I wonder if anyone has tried air pressure? With about 8 sq. inches bore area, 30psi would give nearly 1000 lbs force on the head. Might get it moving...
     
  5. Jet Lag

    Jet Lag Karting

    Dec 6, 2003
    173
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Robert Bangs
    Thanks for the responses.
    derekw: great blog!
    I've actually been applying 90 psi air to the cylinders one at a time as well. I got a crackling noise at the beginning that was very encouraging, but now I only get some very week bubbles around a few of the studs and a couple places where the head meets the block - very weak bubbles. I still get leak-down results that most would envy... I will try hanging by the heads, and look for some jacks that will fit in there, but the rope trick scares me. Before I result to the rope trick I'll make a puller similar to what eljaro in Spain posted a few years ago here, but I would think that there are a few already built out there available to rent or buy. If you're a pro you may use them over and over, but a DIY owner like myself only needs one once.
    Thank you again!!
     
  6. Mike Florio

    Mike Florio Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2003
    592
    NW Rural Nevada
    Full Name:
    Mike Florio
    #6 Mike Florio, Sep 22, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    Rope Trick worked for me as well. Here's a link to the thread:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/observations-on-a-gt4-engine-pull.458208/

    I used double braided nylon line, like used on a sailboat for running rigging. Half inch. Do two cylinders at a time to equalize the load. When you feed it in it will tend to settle around the inner perimeter of the bore (outer perimeter of the piston) , that will put the force on the sides of the piston, where it is the strongest.. Get a long breaker bar with a 24mm 6-point socket on the front crankshaft nut.

    I like this method because there's no chance of stripping any of the threaded holes in the top of the head or bending a head stud like when using a pulling block. Others may disagree, but my reasoning is that the head and pistons are designed to take high forces in these areas. The cam bearing cap studs, spark plug holes, etc are not designed to take pulling forces like when using a puller attached to them,

    I think you will find that the head studs have slightly corroded in their minimum-clearance bores causing the resistance to removing the head. I tried lots of penetrating/release fluids on the studs, but the clearance is so tight none of them worked. I put a thin coat of ceramic anti-seize on the studs (not the threads!) during reassembly to hopefully prevent this in the future.. .

    Manley Valves has the spec for 308 Exhaust valves, I got mine made in the same material used in Top Fuel Dragsters.
    www.manleyperformance.com
    PART # 11223-8
    I can send you the shop drawings for the customization if you like

    Also available frorm Superperformance UK in stainless Steel.
     
  7. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,422
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    I have exactly what you need. It is a HUGE time saver and I've used it on two cars with just perfect results. If you are willing to pay the shipping both ways you may borrow it for free. Message me if you are interested.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. Jet Lag

    Jet Lag Karting

    Dec 6, 2003
    173
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Robert Bangs
    Mike: Great thread; lots of useful information. Looks like you have a great support group and access to lots of expertese & nice toys
    Rob: Wow! very generous; thank you. PM sent. Nice people like you help make up for the dozens of scam emails and phone calles received each day. I'll continue to slather the 50/50 ATF-acetone and heat in the meantime
    Thanks again
     
  9. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,527
    California SF bay area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    YAY!! So glad to see this work out. I recently removed the heads on my QV and I was sweating it because of the stories I had read and the fact that there is no tool such as this for the 4 valve heads. Luckily mine came right off with no drama. We are such a small group, we really need to stick closer together because we are all the support there is out there. Nuvolari deserves a boatload of "likes" :D
     
    Jet Lag likes this.
  10. Jet Lag

    Jet Lag Karting

    Dec 6, 2003
    173
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Robert Bangs
    I took Nuvolari up on his kind and generous offer, and he sent his plate to me right away. My heads were so stuck that I had my doubts, but his plate works like a charm. It works unbelievably well. I used a 3/8" drive to pull the head.
    I had been slathering a 50/50 ATF/acetone concoction several times a day for weeks, applying heat and shock to the head studs, pounding with a sledgehammer and 2 x 4 & 4 x 4s against the heads, and prying against good solid places on the head with absolutely no results. Nuvolari's picture in this thread is the best to show how it's set up, but here are a couple of my pictures of the first head pull. (no, I'm not the one that has a thing for red RTV on the intakes) Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login I'll I'll pull the other head tonight.
    I can't thank Nuvolari enough. Without his plate those heads were not coming off. For months I dreaded the thought of my car turning out to be one of those sitting in a garage for years; thanks to Nuvolari that's not going to happen.
     
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  11. Jet Lag

    Jet Lag Karting

    Dec 6, 2003
    173
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Robert Bangs
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
    I pulled the other head after work today - no drama at all.
    Three studs for each head, six total, were perfect examples of Galvanic/Dissimilar Metal Corrosion. The color of the crud makes me think that none of the gallons of ATF/acetone concoction I slathered on the studs made it to where it was needed. The cylinder leak-down numbers while I was pounding with a 3 lb then 10 lb sledgehammer on 2 x 4s and 4 x 4s makes be thing that all the pounding in the world would not have removed the heads, and the same goes for all the prying with a crow bar on good solid points. Archimedes boasted that if given a place to stand he could move the earth.... He never tried to pull a head stuck on a 308. Those heads were not coming off without a plate puller. Again, I can never thank Nuvolari enough!
     
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  12. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2010
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    Derek W
    Glad they are off. Did you ever try the cord into the plug holes? If not I think that might have worked. Some ceramic anti-seize on the studs and some high temp silicone around the stud bases should stop it happening again.
     
    waymar likes this.
  13. Jet Lag

    Jet Lag Karting

    Dec 6, 2003
    173
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Robert Bangs
    derekw:
    Thanks for the tip on ceramic anti-seize and hight temp silicone.
    No, I did not try the rope trick, and it may have worked...??? But I would have been very nervous trying it. The plate worked so well I can't describe how easy the heads came off with just a little patience. I had imagined using a 2-foot 1/2" breaker bar; I ended up using a 3/8" drive and holding the ratchet at it's head - no joke!
     
  14. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,527
    California SF bay area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I'm really glad my heads came off with no problems because as far as I know there is no such tool as this for the QV heads.
     
  15. Jet Lag

    Jet Lag Karting

    Dec 6, 2003
    173
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Robert Bangs
    Kcabpilot:
    do you have a picture of the QV head that shows why such a plate would not work? I noticed in one of your other threads that you also needed a tool to torque the head nuts.
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,218
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    QV head studs are a different pattern, from memory.
    Heads themselves different casting from the 2V engines.

    The plate puller was a "made for the job" part. I would bet "there is one, somewhere" for the QV engine.

    This thread brought back very old memories.
    My old shop would have the engine hanging from the heads under it's own weight, totally sure it would never hit the floor!

    Meanwhile the owner would be muttering "tighter than the Gates of Hell!" under his breath.
    I seem to think he just pounded ever thicker wedges, wood, into the side seams, until he got them moving on the corroded studs.

    Fun, fun, fun!!
    Great work guys, to all that helped here!!

    Great link to the modern valves too!
    Thanks!
     
  17. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,527
    California SF bay area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    4 valve heads are completely different, the studs are underneath the cam journals because the two valves take all the space in between. So there is no direct access to the studs to put the force on. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. warrenz

    warrenz Karting

    Aug 11, 2014
    95
    Sweet S Ranch
    Full Name:
    Regis Bragg Stevenson
    Beautiful tool,,the SHOC V12 heads were pressed on and you had to use puller plates
    that's the fanciest rendition I ever ever seen ,,,very sophisicated
     

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