What do you use for valve caps ? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

What do you use for valve caps ?

Discussion in '360/430' started by neil e dale, Nov 15, 2018.

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  1. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
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    I would use dielectric grease on this particular application (were I ever to use metal caps) instead of anti-seize/never seize because the lube might migrate to the sensor, which is an electronic part. Anti-seize has conductive materials in it. Dielectric grease does not.


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  2. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    #27 neil e dale, Nov 17, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
    I think not ! I do not see how never seize could migrate to the sensor! ( at least the electronic part of the sensor just think about it logicly the never seize is very isolated fr the electronic part is on the threads on the outside of the valve stem and the inside of the valve cap I suppose it could come in contact w/ whatever physically constitutes the pressure sender but not the electronics portion ! and then there is this factoid ! ( as per the Rennslist forum the Porsche guys ) - " Anti-seize is generally a poor conductor of electricity as the metal content is relatively low thus the effective contact area is minimal. Electrically conductive grease ( dialectric grease ! )might be a better choice?" ..........................and

    "you shouldn't use the electrical grease as a anti seize thread lube. its just for electrical connections. ".......................................................................................now some types of never seize would allow/ facilitate current flow - some won't
    Permatex® Copper Anti-Seize Lubricant



    Category: Specialty Lubricants - Anti-Seize
    A premium quality copper anti-seize and thread lubricant that may be used to prevent seizing, corrosion and galling where high temperature conditions exist. Contains a high percentage of micro-fine copper flakes in a semi-synthetic grease carrier and is fortified with high quality rust and corrosion inhibitors. Temperature range: -30°F to 1800°F (-34°C to 982°C). Provides good electrical conductivity. -
    Suggested Applications: Spark plug threads installed in aluminum, exhaust manifold bolts, engine bolts, oxygen sensors, knock sensors, thermostat housing bolts, and fuel filter fittings. Indeed this is the type we use on spark plugs ! so sorry, you've got it kind of backward at least w/ some types of never seize do not conduct well ! then there is this fr an electrical engineer ! :
    One incorrect logic is the "dielectric" in "dielectric grease" means the grease should only be used to insulate. All greases work by the low viscosity allowing the grease to completely push out of areas with metal-to-metal contact. Dielectric grease is just better at holding off high voltages over long paths.

    Conductive Grease
    Conductive greases and anti-seize compounds have a suspended base metal powder. The suspended metal powder is a fraction of the area occupied by insulating grease, and so the grease still insulates the connection. The grease does not conduct.

    The working theory of "conductive" grease is when pressure is applied, the grease squeezes out of the way. This leaves a fine metal powder that theoretically pierces oxides or fills voids. Using aluminum and copper blocks with various surface conditions, I've never been able to actually verify connection improvement from specialized conductive greases. In my tests, it appeared the grease simply carried most of the suspended powder away. Any remaining powder has never been enough to reliably reduce voltage drop across clamped connections. The change in voltage drop has always been indefinable, even with careful repeats of clamping pressure. I'd appreciate anyone having useful data sending me a copy.

    The suspended powder creates a problem that does not exist with dielectric grease. The suspended metal must be fully compatible with the metals being clamped. This means conductive grease is application specific. If the metals being clamped are incompatible with the grease's suspended metal powder, the connection will eventually fail. This is what happened in our CATV system connectors. The connections were a mix of copper, aluminum, and steel. The cable shields were aluminum, the trunk center conductors cables were copper clad aluminum. Drop cables were aluminum shields and connectors, with copper clad steel centers. Our records showed a much higher incidence of corrosion failure using conductive grease. Corrosion failure rate dropped significantly, almost to zero, when we switched to pure dielectric grease.

    In bolted or clamped connections, I have no opinion if conductive greases help or are necessary. I feel like they help, but I'm not sure if that is true. I use Noalox on clamped aluminum slip joints in antennas because it is generally less expensive than silicone dielectric greases and it appears to last longer. I NEVER use conductive greases on push fit electrical connectors, or if I am unsure of metal to grease compatibility.

    Conductive greases should specifically match materials being clamped. Conductive greases should never be used in low pressure electrical connectors, or in connectors with multiple terminals. Conductive greases should only be used in connections that are well-isolated from connections with differing voltages, and never in high voltage connections. They never belong in RF or signal connectors, unless they are bolted connections and the material compatible grease does not bridge insulation..................................................................................................................... Never seize ! .we are using such a slight amount mere whisp really! it is not gloped on ! ( doesn't take much to prevent galling and dissimilar metal corrosion ) our use of never seize it has never been an issue in many years ! 50 + ! mayhaps the difference betwixt theory and reality is evident here !
     
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  3. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
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    I agree that conductive grease is a bad idea. But “Dielectric grease is electrically insulating and does not break down when high voltage is applied. It is often applied to electrical connectors, particularly those containing rubber gaskets, as a means of lubricating and sealing rubber portions of the connector without arcing.” That said, it does seem unlikely due to the positive air pressure inside the tire that any grease could find its way to the sensor.



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease


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  4. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    noted and since never seize is specifically designed to prevent thread galling, dissimilar metal corrosion, etc. we see no reason it cannot be used and would be preferred ( and is ) by mechanics! I was discussing this topic at a car show w/ several techs and we were genuinely bemused that anyone would diss the widespread use of it !
     
  5. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

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    LOL. I didn’t mean to be too harsh. The point is to use at least something on the caps else they fuse to the stems.


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  6. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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  7. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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  8. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    indeed saw those somewhere very clever cover up the whole stem they do ! as i recall they were pricy ! ( ferrari tax ) !!
     
  9. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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  10. JimEakin

    JimEakin Formula Junior

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    I only obsess with all 4 (metal caps) being identical. When I had a tire fixed the tire came back without the cap. I went back to the shop and had the guy find my cap.
     
  11. djempire

    djempire Formula Junior

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    In my opinion, ostentatious add-ons on any Ferrari says a lot about the owner. In other word....it makes it look cheap. YOMV.
     
  12. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    Boy you'd really hate this car then ! for sale on e bay ! ( not mine ) Not my cup of tea but well done i'd say ! as for the valve caps? I hardly think they are "ostentatious add-ons " do we hear a purist talking ? seems to me they are a small appropriate functional part that in fact matches, goes w/ the wheel center caps ! .................................................. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. ShadowLAP

    ShadowLAP Formula Junior

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  14. shifter

    shifter Formula Junior
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  15. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Thats why I use the military/aircraft grade yellow caps I posted above. Simple and if its good enough for commercial aircraft its good enough for me. (I was a commercial aircraft mechanic and inspector for many years). They only come in yellow AFAIK.
     
  16. ShadowLAP

    ShadowLAP Formula Junior

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  17. shifter

    shifter Formula Junior
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    I switched to metal stem covers and caps after melting plastic caps at Laguna Seca and Infineon.

    Mine are OEM Ferrari Titanium.


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  18. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

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    Suggest you remove caps at track. You often need to bleed air anyway. Plastic caps melt, and metal caps’ rubber seals do, too.


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  19. shifter

    shifter Formula Junior
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    I do. I only use them on the street.


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  20. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    And the explanation above about using a lubricant on a bolt fit connection requires you to back off on the torque is why the recommendation to lube the mating surfaces of the wheel bolt and the rim for the 488 wheels falling off issue is BS. Your article above explains nicely that the bolt will stretch doing so if using the same torque setting. The bolt hole will also deform since it is a softer material. The result will be uncontrolled tightening torque which is bad for a wheel bolt. Didn't mean to sidetrack the thread but the technical description was excellent and irrefutable. Back on topic - I use the black rubber caps that came with the car - not sexy but the car is way sexy enough.
     
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  21. neil e dale

    neil e dale Formula Junior
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    thx yes it is hardly difficult to calculate the appropriate torque reduction whilst using never seize! there are a plethora of sound advice engineering based sources ( as above that clearly delineate what should be done and how ) I was chatting w/ some fellow techs and we were quite bemused by all the naysayers to using never seize! we have done it our entire professional life w/ Zero issues !
     
  22. _JERRY_

    _JERRY_ Karting

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    I use TOPEAK bicycle schrader black valve caps. My rims are black and the valve caps become invisible. They are light and have a decent quality with regards to the threading. Easy to untighten even if you usually overtighten after regular tire maintenance. heh. (On a side note, i've tried some fancy ones, that are a b*tch to unloosen if you have a habit of overtightening, because the threading isnt precise.)

    The Anti-theft ones are annoying and inconvenient for your OWN usage. If you're worried your valve caps get pinched off, get the 100 pieces for $8 types. Even if u lose them regularly, 100 pieces would probably last the entirety of your car ownership.

    Oh yea, one last thing haha. You want your wheel rim center caps to take limelight, not the valve caps. Too many ferrari logos in one general area might ruin the look. :p
     
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