Just 321 miles!!!...
Just 321 miles!!! https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/ferrari/328/1989/659160?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Classic%20Driver%20Daily%201012019&utm_content=Classic%20Driver%20Daily%201012019+CID_d4b72672cbc466da0353da40e96059ae&utm_source=newsletter
Hi John, I have just posted that one in another thread: chassis ZFFWA20B000080070. Been for sale for a year now. For your information, very low mileage 328s ("Time capsules") are rather common as far as Model Year '89 go: many of these cars were bought after Enzo Ferrari's death for speculation purpose. The list of known "time capsules" goes in at least two dozen cars, and grows every year whenever one is destocked from the shelf were it has been sleeping for 30 years. There will be others: by definition, these cars are hidden from the public... Rgds
I am but an irregular visitor to this part of the forum, so had not seen your post. What you say is very interesting: it defies understanding that anyone would be able to resist driving these lovely cars for so long. While I can just about comprehend the original purchaser's reasoning, in the case of a one owner car, I cannot see that keeping an "investment" for so long makes financial sense, or any sense at all. That 328 has done 320 miles in 30 years - I have done ten times as many miles in my 246 in one tenth of that time! I trust all is well with you. Best wishes
John, Valid point of course, and this is a discussion we have had quite a number of times in this forum, about every time one appears. Last year I listed the "times capsules" I know of: there were 27 cars for the '89 MY, but some others have made made their "coming out" since... My definite favourite being this one: https://www.supervettura.com/1989-ferrari-328-yellow.html 79020: UK, 2150 miles, at HR Owen in Nov. 2015 79583, US, 4815 miles, at Marshall Goldman Jan. 2016 79607: Swiss, 7700 kms, in Germany in June 2016, 169.000 asked 79938: Australian, 1660 miles, Christies sale London 2004 79966, US, 64 miles, Hemmings New-York, 2012 80202, Swiss, 3300kms, sold in Belgium in 2008 80386, US, 190 miles, for sale in Canada in 2008 80552, Euro, 616kms, for sale in Germany in Oct. 2012 (this was a car seized by justice) 80610, US, 105miles, RM Auction July 2012 80644, Euro, 199kms, Bonhams sale Sept 2014 80682, US, 389kms, for sale in Italy, Feb 2014 80883, Euro, 2500kms, for sale out of a collection in Andorra, Jan. 2015 81058, US, 87miles, sold in Switzerland by Bonhams in 2002 81143, Swiss, 800kms, sold in 2005 81150, Euro, 190kms, one of two brand new Giallo/Nero GTS put aside by French importer Ch.Pozzi, sold in 2003 81188, UK, 556miles, appeared for sale end 2014 81327, Euro, 5866kms, Bonhams sale, Reims, France, Sept. 2008 81550, Euro, 410kms, for sale in München, Germany, April 2015, 200.000 euros asked. 81897, Euro, 1200kms, For sale in USA, February 2015. 82112, Euro, 150kms, sold at F.A Automobiles in Paris, France, 2010 (probably to Japan) 82125, US, 1400miles, when advertised for sale in Feb. 2010 82202, UK, 299miles, for sale Aug. 2015 82264, UK, 5500miles, at Bonhams sale, June 2016 82794, Euro, 8500kms, for sale in Spain, Dec. 2015 83092, UK, 2100miles, for sale June 2016 83116, Swiss, 99kms, Bonhams auction, 2007 83117, Swiss, 160kms, On E-Bay Germany, then at Auto-Salon Singen, 2012 Rgds
Those are unbelievable but, unfortunately, are only art pieces. Look but don't use is the permanent rule now. They have to be transported everywhere, never under their own power.
Why? I bought one of those and drove it. Every scratch, rock chip and crease in the leather is mine. I couldn't have a brand new one in 1990 so I got it later. That is the most flawed logic and incorrect read of human nature I have ever seen and it is posted here regularly. Sorry Tommy but don't buy into that B.S.
Incredible list! If the guy who bought the one one in the advert I posted had, instead of paying, say, £50,000 for the car, invested his money to show 4% - not a big ask, considering the way interest rates were in the early part of that period - he would have the price he is asking for the car now. And that ignores any costs of keeping the car in the meantime - tax, insurance, garaging, servicing etc., etc. That makes sense. And if my maths make sense too, then you got the best end of the bargain.
Oh yes indeed, John, we made that sort of calculation also, everytime a new "328 time capsule" appears on the market. These cars always start debates, you know, about the wisdom of having put these on a shelf, etc... I love to see a new "time capsule" coming to light; we 328s afficionados are fortunate that so many of these were put on a shelf between August 1988 (Enzo Ferrari's death) and the end of the 328 production in September 1989. Whereas they were a good investment doesn't matter (actually, they were not); it's so nice to be able to see a "brand new 328". I was even fortunate enough to test-drive one, six or seven years ago, a yellow/black GTS that had been put on a shelf by the french importer, Pozzi, and was just recommissioned with about 6000 miles on the clock; drove like a brand new car, even had the smell of one. I wouldn't hesitate to drive one; fix what needs to be fixed, but 328s are pretty tough cars, usually. . Of course, depreciation would be tough, but who cares? You only live once, and as said by Brian above: it would be mine, all mine. The one that I couldn't afford back in 1989; starting all over again... (and be reminded that there are others of these ladies in waiting, still asleep somewhere...hidden from our prying eyes) Rgds
Oh, I agree but the reality of it is no one will WANT to "screw up" the single part that they paid a premium for. I don't buy these things to look at, I buy them to use. Remember I am in the over 100,000 mile club with my QV (120,000 something now) so I get what you are saying. But, unfortunately, you and I both know that mileage isn't going anywhere north of where it is now, probably forever.
Not true at all. I help people find cars like that so they can drive them. Sorry but your narrative is Fchat lore. Some buy them for collections and they sit. but it just isn't true that others are not buying them to use. That is Fchat stupidity. Premium??? What premium? How much do you think a brand new 328 would cost from Ferrari? A hell of a lot more is the answer. In adjusted dollars they are a bargain. Our 1000 mile TR cost was an astronomical price but was !/3 of what it cost the original buyer, we have driven it since and it is worth more now than what we paid. Explain how we paid a premium? I have helped put people in brand new 20 year old 328's and F40's, they are driving them and the cars are worth more now. How is that a premium? How is it those numbers do not work? Explain to them how it was a waste of money to buy a perfect car? You may want a $70,000 used 328 to drive but don't be foolish enough to think you speak for everyone. Do you buy used cloths to save money? How is that any different. I don't like to wear other peoples clothes and a lot of us don't like driving other peoples cars either.
I would assume there are more people out there that would buy it and park it than there are that would buy it and use it. I am in the group with you. I would buy it, use it AND keep it. Hell maybe I'm wrong about the market. You would know more that I
Been doing my homework yesterday evening... Revised list of known “very low mileage” or time capsules 328s in April 2019: 42 cars (additions in bold) To qualify, cars must have: - less than 10.000 kms (6250 miles) on the odometer, - a chassis number “post #77000” so as to have been delivered “about” August 1988 or after. Corrections and additions welcome. 77187: Euro, 9500 kms, for sale in Italy, April 2016 77436: Euro, 3800 kms, Bonhams sale, Geneva 2003 77646: Sweden, 769 kms, for sale in Japan, December 2018 77736: Switzerland, 7700 kms for sale at MMC in Paris, December 2014 78971: US, 4126 miles as for sale in Chicago July 2018 79020: UK, 2150 miles, at HR Owen in Nov. 2015 79149: Euro, 3000 kms as for sale in September 2018, delivered new to Denmark 79583: US, 4815 miles, at Marshall Goldman Jan. 2016 79607: Swiss, 7700 kms, in Germany in June 2016, 169.000€ asked 79638: US, 6116 miles on the odo as for sale in February 2011 79938: Australian, 1660 miles, Christie’s sale, London, UK, 2004 79966: US, 64 miles, Hemmings New-York, 2012 80070: Euro, 519 kms, for sale in Germany, May 2018 (never registered) 80202: Swiss, 3300 kms, sold in Belgium in 2008 80331: Sweden, 3210 kms, for sale in Sweden in February 2017 80386: US, 190 miles, for sale in Canada in 2008 80446: Euro, 3200 kms, for sale August 2018, delivered new in Denmark 80552: Euro, 616 kms, for sale in Germany in Oct. 2012 (this was a car seized by justice) 80610: US, 105 miles, RM Auction July 2012 80644: Euro, 199 kms, Bonhams sale Sept 2014 80682: US, 389 kms, for sale in Italy, Feb 2014 80883: Euro, 2500 kms, for sale out of a collection in Andorra, Jan. 2015 81058: US, 87 miles, sold in Switzerland by Bonhams in 2002 81143: Swiss, 800 kms, sold in 2005 81150: Euro, 190 kms, one of two brand new Giallo/Nero GTS put aside by French importer Ch.Pozzi, sold in 2003 81188: UK, 556 miles, appeared for sale end 2014 81267: Euro, 900 kms, for sale with certified mileage in Germany, January 2017, 229.000 euros asked 81327: Euro, 5866 kms, Bonhams sale, Reims, France, Sept. 2008 81550: Euro, 410 kms, for sale in München, Germany, April 2015, 200.000 euros asked. 81897: Euro, 1200 kms, For sale in USA, February 2015. 81988: Switz, 8000 kms as for sale in Japan in August 2015; f.sale in Czech Republic in Oct. 2017 82094: Euro, 9900 kms, the second of two brand new Giallo / Nero GTS put on a shelf by French importer Ch. Pozzi, for sale Nov. 2013 82112: Euro, 150 kms, sold at F.A Automobiles in Paris, France, 2010 (probably to Japan) 82125: US, 1400 miles, when advertised for sale in Feb. 2010 82202: UK, 299 miles, for sale Aug. 2015 82206: US, 6258 miles as for sale July 2011 82489: US, 4700 miles as for sale October 2018 82624: UK, 5500 miles, at Bonham’s sale, June 2016 (corrected: 82624, not 82264!) 82794: Euro, 8500 kms, for sale in Spain, Dec. 2015 83092: UK, 2100 miles, for sale June 2016 (said to be the last GTS exported to the UK) 83116: Swiss, 99 kms, Bonham’s auction, 2007 83117: Swiss, 160 kms, On E-Bay Germany, then at Auto-Salon Singen, 2012 Rgds
You are right, Bertrand: I typed too fast again: it is 79146, not 79149...sorry! ZFFWA19B000079146, a Rosso Corsa / Crema leather / Nero carpets GTB for sale last year with 3.000 kms on the odometer, sold new in Denmark. Rgds
Unfortunately it's a Ferrari thing in general. The buyers of these cars didnt buy them to drive. They bought them as someone buys a piece of art and puts it into storage never to be seen. These people have been caught out though, they have left it 3-4 years too late to sell. Car storage places are full of Ferraris of this genre, a friend who stores his 430 in the winter was shown around one and the manager pointed out several cars which the owners have never even seen let alone driven. They were bought on their behalf and stored. Not only do cars not attract tax on any capital gains but they are easy to use to store money of a dubious source off-records, especially with new banking rules which allow accounts to be inspected.
Who was it that said, not driving your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she will be more attractive to her next boyfriend?
I for one will never judge anyone for having anything and doing with it as they please. None of my F**king business. Seems many here feel they are the ultimate judge of others lives. Not a great personality trait.
I really enjoy the conversations here. The clock in my ‘78 308 is still ticking I observed today, along with my treasured sodium-filled valves : - ).
Here's a thought and a question... Why do we see so may 328's bought to lay away with almost zero miles on the clock for investment purposes after Enzo's death, but we don't see or hear of that many MY 1988-1989 Mondial's, 412's or Testarossa's bought for the same reason. Or for that matter that many F40's with next to no miles kept in storage. Just heaps of 328's. Why do you think that is? Or maybe we do and I just haven't heard about them.
Well, can't say for sure, nor can I give numbers because I don't follow the market of these cars, and I don't keep lists of chassis numbers for these; I don't know if Bertrand does (?), either... But my guess is that you might see some, but not so many as 328s, that is true. There are some very low miles Testarossas here and there, and from time to time a very low miles F40s. We saw a "delivery miles only" "Mondial T" in Switzerland...for 412s, I really don't know, I have not the faintest idea? The "3x8s" were always very popular cars; also the less expensive of the Ferrari catalogue (a brand new "Mondial" was more costly when new). Rgds
