Higher Mileage 430 - Should I Buy?

Lets be brutally honest here with ourselves. The bottom line is, on an average, a modified car will indirectly mean higher maintenance costs than one that is factory set --> everything being equal. I'm sure u can point me to a one off, with a "PERFECTLY" modified car, but that is really all it is, a one off.

 

Well written and concise post Dan. Spot on!

 

When people place value on a dealership service history its less with the idea that it was high quality and more has to do with if it was serviced by a dealer then things that didnt need to be addressed were actually done. For quality the vote goes to the good independents but they too can get too big and become an assembly line.


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I really don't follow this logic at all. So in the F430, it's modified if someone puts in aftermarket headers. That actually will reduce maintenance costs. Aftermarket Hill Engineering ball joints again, lowered maintenance costs. Aftermarket carbon fiber nope. Aftermarket suspension, again no change in costs.

If you're equating aftermarket means driven harder which somehow means more maintenance that's not really true. When these cars are driven hard the only increased maintenance is tires, brakes, and fluids. And that's an immediate increase to the current owner. It's not like somehow those things continue to cost more later.

Again, I really don't see why people fear track use or aftermarket modifications on these cars. If anything, I sought out modifications because that suggests the person really cared enough to put a more money into the car.

 

I’d say Dans car in some aspects is a better buy then most f430’s and here is why. Yea he tracked it, and you know that because he didn’t hide it. I’d wager a lot more f430’s have been tracked and marketed and sold as not tracked. He never wrecked it and I can off the top of my head recall a time he did t track it because it needed some work. Dan also had the car hooked to diagnostic equipment on one video detailing the condition of components, so again you know the at the time of the video it was a “good” car. Yes Dan did some work himself and occasionally made mistakes but again was shown on video and corrected. The header swap is a non issue as a lot of people in this forum, and many who are not, swap the exaust on these cars literally all the time. And I’d guess Dan didn’t drive any crazier then most people would if they owned the car.

Dans car in my opinion isn’t a car to be afraid of, if anything you likely will spend less to repair items that are hidden or mid represented. You likely will spend a chunk on the exaust depending on where you live/noise tolerance. It’s already been said that the clutch is in good order, and the F1 system is at about half life. For a drivers car, you know the kind you can get in and cruise around in with less fear of devaluing the car, it’s a solid example. For an investment car it’s not the car for you. I think if I were in the market for a driver f430 I’d sure not hesitate to spend 75-85 on Dans car with the peace of mind that while I will have to maintain it the likelyhood of some lurking repair is reduced significantly, and probably making the car a bargain over a higher priced example.

 

I don't know why you're so anti modifications. dhurlbert above mentioned some instances of aftermarket parts being better. If you're talking about a wing being drilled in, yes that lowers value even though it doesn't make it less reliable.

I'm most familiar with the 355 and the stock headers and cats on those cars are absolute garbage. Not everything Ferrari puts on their cars is golden.

 

Aftermarket, as is Asian manufactured exhaust valves that stick and fail, and are repeatedly replaced with new.

 

The only reason to buy this car is price and if it is cheap enough then it will sell. You can debate all you want about the merits of aftermarket parts, DIY maintenance, tracking the car, paints chips, DIY clear bra install, etc, etc......these are all negative points that take away value plus the car has 54K miles on it! There are way too many clean, low mileage examples for sale to bother with this car unless it is super cheap, that is the only thing going for it.

 

Headers and improved Hill Engineering parts take away value on a standard F430?

 

Not a diy clear bra anymore either, he had that professionally done earlier this year. And again I’m still also going to ignore the trucking comment as well since you have no way to prove one way or another any other car that’s not on YouTube has or hasn’t been especially if they changed the tires.

I’ll give you that there would be a decent portion of folks that can and do look negatively at diy maintainance. It s also fair to criticize the exaust valves since they seem to have been a problem though I don’t know what kind they are. And yes the mileage will certainly affect the value, though to be fair I’ve seen examples with more miles priced nearly identical. And it’s almost a given that unless the car stays in Texas or one of the few other states that won’t give a care about modded exaust that whoever buys it pretty much is going to have to spend for at least some exaust work.

And at the end of the day I guess the car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, some have more or less said it’s worth less to them and that is fair. But I’d bet Dans car is in better shape then some other examples that are priced higher. The nice thing about Dans car is it is pretty easy to look at past videos and see what you are getting. I have read posts on here that detailed paying way more money for a car with mid 30k miles and having to sink 25k on a laundry list of issues, and more if it needs a clutch as well.

I think right around 80k for Dans car is fair given what it needs, and he’s made no bones that it’s a divers car and has flaws.

 

Wow, I don't know you personally and I'm sure you're a pleasant bloke, but your comments seem terribly full of arrogance and snobbery... open checkbook? Seriously... No offense but jeez man... please be careful, attitudes like this give other Ferrari owners a bad stereotype and name.

 

You must have a thin skin and get offended easily.
Nothing in his comment is arrogant or snobbish. He's telling it like it is. He hits all the points that is concerning about the car. If anything..... I think he was being nice.

 

Lol, thin skin? You have dont have the slightest clue who youre talking to, do you?
Carry on

 

Lol...did you really post this?

 

Hmmm... this seems to be going a lil off-track heh. Anyways , I’m just sharing my personal opinion and experience with buying used , pre-mod cars. I’m by no means the authority on this of course . I just feel someone who’s purchasing one should be aware of the potential pitfalls. Everything factory set was calculated to handle factory set components. Sure Ferrari Engineers may not have done a perfect job with initial parts/calibrations/tweaks and certain aftermarket changes might solve these base initial issues. I’m just saying on an average , majority of the engine parts were made in tandem to withstand the strain the car was tuned for. Mind u , we’re talking about a machine that’s already a high performance vehicle off the shelf. I think I would need a lot more convincing that pushing the cap higher will not be detrimental to the durability of the general engine components and indirectly incur more maintenance issues as well as compromise the base integrity of the car. I’m not personally attacking Dan or his car , my views are generally with regards to all non factory standard cars. When a mechanic mods a car, sure he can claim higher BHP, quicker acceleration etc . I’ve yet to hear one give a 2 year warranty on anything linked to his mod and/or not blame any future issues on “wear and tear” cuz that instantly voids his responsibility. Just my 2 cents , cheers!


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That's valid, and yes Ferrari does tune the car from the factory to be specific to their needs, but they tune it to be very conservative so that it can handle a HUGE range of conditions from high altitude, to sea level, crappy gas to great gas with higher octane, etc. When I had mine tuned for example, we first took baseline readings to see where it was at and it was VERY rich. Again, Ferrari set it that way to be conservative and would rather the car run rich than lean out and blow up. Since I live in Texas (near sea level) and we have access to 93 octane state wide, we could lean up my tune quite a bit gaining 27HP just from the tune and still have 0 concerns. In fact, it's actually better for the engine because now it's closer to the ideal stoichiometric ratio. The spark plugs should last longer, it runs cleaner, and believe it or not, but it burns less fuel.... Not that it gets good MPG now.

I also should note that I had my car dyno tuned - meaning they put it on a dyno, and ran the car multiple times tuning it a little bit each pull. This way they tuned my car to a unique tune specific to my car. I trust this method a LOT more than buying a chip or doing some generic remote tune.

When there's performance modifications to the engine, you just have to look into what they were and how they were done. If someone slaps on a terrible tune then yes, it 100% could severely damage the motor. If I were buying a car that had a tune, I'd ask for the dyno sheet showing it's AFR. If the AFR looks to be good, then no worries.

Remember, these are basically de-tuned race cars. They can take a boatload of stress. They're designed with huge margins of tolerance that even after significant modifications are nowhere near touching the limits.

I'd be far more worried about buying a car that sits in a garage all the time, or one where the owner loves to start up the car and immediately rev the piss out of it, or when people drive them hard before the oil is up to temp, or those that don't know how to drive an F1 transmission properly. All of these things are far scarier to me than a modified car (excluding adding boost or running ethanol).

So here's the catch 22 for one of the major pain points of the F430. Aftermarket headers are the only way to come close to guaranteeing no cracked manifolds. So great! Aftermarket headers FTW! But wait, if you change the headers out, you've now altered the AFR unintentionally. So now the engine isn't running properly, the proper solution - get it tuned. Does that mean you should want a car with headers but no tune? Or headers with a tune? Or stock manifolds and just pray?

I think it's obvious what my opinion is there...

There's really no right or wrong here. People should get a car they are comfortable with.

 

Let’s not forget, we’re just giving the thread starter some of our personal opinions and sharing info and experiences so that he can make a better decision. No need to get personal. Cheers!


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lol, Flea7 best to ignore these trolls and talk about what we all love Ferrari's!

 

Well....I thought more on it.....hhhhmmmm???
I was thinking he was Charles Bronson....but nahhh....he's too young...THEN!, I noticed that he's from Texas!....so He must be Chuck Norris!

 

Chuck Norris doesn’t use the internet. In fact, when Google has a question, they “Chuck Norris” it.

 

Good point! Anyhow, he must have mistaken me for someone who give a sh*t on who he is.
What a ridiculous comment...

 

Mine has 40kish miles it’s my DD.


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I am quite surprised for the rather rude and embarrassing display of behavior on your part if you are an adult...

My job requires I carry a graveyard in the back of my head, so no, I don't have thin skin. And no, you have no idea who you are talking to, meaning, you should be polite to the people around you in general, even if they are just strangers on the internet.

Off topic, but which Ferrari are you driving these days? If you had one, suspect you'd be a part FCA Hill Country Chapter, we do a lot of co-events, be nice to put a face with the internet name.


Apologies, done thread jacking....sounds like the OP got his answer anyways.

 

Hmmmm, thin skinned and no sense of humor.
I though my response was funny and appropriate to yours.
Anyhow, don't come in now all high and mighty....trying to be all adult like....back stepping on your mr. tough guy comment.

.....let it go man..... Let this thread die in peace.....