Anyone know which Facet Fuel pump is correct for a non modified carb 308? They make two: One with maximum pressure delivery 4 to 5 psi. Typical flow 23 gallons per hour at 2 psi. The other with maximum pressure delivery 6.5 to 7.5 psi. Typical flow 35 gallons per hour at 2 psi. Thanks!
The lesser one actually matches the specs given in the 308GT4 WSM better (and may run a little quieter, but don't know that for sure): 3 +/- 0.5 meters of H20 (3.5~5 psi) 100 liters per hour (with no pressure given, but could be 0 psi -- and you only need ~1 psi worst case to get the fuel up to the carbs from the bottom of a near empty tank so, if the lesser Facet pump can do 23 gal/hour at 2 psi, it will do more at 1 psi or 0 psi)
I have the smaller pump on my 77. There wasn't even a hint of fuel starvation when i had the car on the track. I understand that there is another pump available from Pierberg that is a lot quieter. Whichever way you go, this would be a good time to replace the old hoses down by the pump. I used 5/16th Napa 150 psi rated fuel injection hose. I have forgotten the name of the clamps, but there are beter clamps than the standard gates units. They are made from sheetmetal and don't cut through the outter jacket like the ubiquitous gates ones do. hth, chris
Thanks Guys! The car is pretty much entirely disassembled. It's been stripped to bare metal, primed and blocked twice now on the way to repainting and a redo of the interior (already got it stripped and redied with Leatherique) and replacement of ALL the fuel lines is definitely in the plans. With the number of comments on this forum and knowing a good friend and neighbor lost his 308GTB this spring due to an engine fire, hoses are on the top of the list. Thanks again!
That's true, actually. Both the low pressure Facet and Pierburg pumps work well without a regulator (I've used them both). The Facet is actually a re-packaged Bendix-style interrupter type pump used on many aircraft, vintage race cars, and is the recommended replacement listed by Ferrari, SpA. The Facet has the famous 'Woody Woodpecker' constant clicking/pecking sound, while the Pierburg is a newer rotary style pump used by many Weber carburated Porsche 911s that is much quieter and hums. Both are widely available, and similar in price. I had a Facet on my car, but on long trips the sound of the pump over the engine was a bit distracting (may not be an issue for you), so I went to a Pierburg from Pierce Manifolds (their recommended Weber pump) which bolted right up. Either works fine, just depends on your taste.
Thanks Russ, Even with the loud exhaust and open velocity stacks, the pecker noise is annoying. I will try the Pierberg. Regards, chris
Chris, I've got a pair of the Pierburg pumps sitting on my bench...ready to go in my BB over the Winter. http://www.allzim.com/acatalog/Pierburg_Low_Pressure_Fuel_Pump.html Nice people to do business with...and fast shipping. David
I also used to 5psi pump on my 78 GT4. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136346965&postcount=300
Thanks for the info here guys. I just replaced mine a couple days ago and all is well. I got mine from Kragen's (O'Reily). It is packaged as a Purolator but has Facet right on the pump. Their part number is PRO87SV http://shop.oreillyauto.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=PUR&MfrPartNumber=PRO87SV&CategoryCode=3339K This one is 4-5.5 psi and 32 gph. Bolted right on, but does sound like a woodpecker. Henry
VIVA GT4!!! This is fantastic. Again we have a GT4 worthy of a full restoration while testarossas are still spiraling down through neglect, destruction and under-appreication (See this disaster : http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259635 )
I'd like to re-open this thread-- I've got a 77 308 GTB that I suspect is suffering from a bad fuel pump. A few weeks ago I noticed it sounding a bit sick and weak upon startup. I was able to get it started, but a few times the car would stumble and die while on the road. I was able to get it re-started eventually and drive off. Now, after sitting for a few weeks, (Optima battery on a tender, so plenty juice), the darn thing won't start. I hear the pump activate, although sounding pretty sickly, when the key is on, but after letting it run for a minute, then 3 full pedal pumps, the engine won't turn over. Seems to have plenty crank and I imagine, spark, but I think no fuel. I popped the hood, and tried to smell fuel in the carburetor area, not much fuel odor. Do fuel pumps normally go bad all at once, or slowly over time? Is there not a "normal" failure-type for a fuel pump? Anyway, I suspect it's the fuel pump, after all, it's 33 years old! Even though my car has only 34,000 miles on her, the thing is probably done for. Do my symptoms sound like this to you guys? I happen to have a new Facet fuel pump I ordered from Superformance UK about 4 years ago. It's about 4" tall, with a gold/red label. Box says part # is 100245. The label on the box and pump says "Facet Universal Electronic Fuel Pump". I can't find any pressure rating on any documentation, or the pump itself. The install sheet does say it's for carburetor-equipped cars. Carburetor 308s need about 3 psi, right? Can anybody confirm this one will do the job? If it's too strong, do I need to install an inline fuel pressure regulator? Thanks, Greg in Houston
If you ordered the unit from superformance, it's probably fine. I believe the pump you are describing is the official replacement part recommended by Ferrari. I am currently using a Carter P4070 pump which is rated at 5-6psi and 76gph and it is perfect. No regulator needed. And yes, fuel pumps can just die on you all of the sudden. Well, that's how I have experienced it happening anyway.
Thanks for the response, John. Mine appears to have died over a few weeks, not just suddenly. I wonder if this is possible. It would explain my situation.... Superformance UK website says this pump is 7 psi. It's on the 308 carb page, so I suppose it's ok, but everybody on here is recommending 3-4 psi. ?? Greg
Mine died slowly. Occasionally, the car would slowly die during warm up. I would typically crank it again and it would be fine. Then, I started noticing the change in sound. Instead of the robust hum it would produce a static sounding series of buzzes and pops. While sounding this way the car would not start. After some number of seconds the old familiar hum would kick in and off I went. Why I put up with stuff like this boggles my own mind. I even replaced all the fuel lines and vapor hoses and while in there didn't bother to replace the pump. Finally, last week it reached the end. The pump wouldn't pop out of its "sick" buzzy mode and the car wouldn't start. I saw someone here suggest whacking it and it would right itself. I didn't try that. Based on another thread here I ordered the Facet. I thought the old pump was loud . It seems to be working fine though it did not come with the fuel line fittings, which I had to get from a local auto parts store. I didn't pay attention to the PSI rating, so also curious about that should I have the higher PSI model and that is problematic somehow.
Those style of pumps don't go 7psi. Run it. Matter of fact, I think Russ runs one identical to it in his carbureted 3.2 hot rod.
I love the little hum with the Carter pump. Man they are tough to mount in there though. I used 90 degree elbows at the pump inlet/outlet which was the only way I could get it to work.
The actual spec in the 308GT4 WSM (3.0 +/- 0.5 meters of H20) converts to 4.27 +/- 0.71 psi, but I think a lot of people have used 6-7 psi pumps (sans regulator) without any obvious and immediate problems. The downsides at 7 psi are that you are wasting a little power generating a higher pressure that you don't need (and the higher current required will put more stress on the stock fuse block so you might want to ensure that you've got a good electrical connection between the tops of fuses #1, 2, and 3), and it might put more wear on the needle valves and cause the fuel level inside the bowl to run a litttle higher vs the mechanical float setting -- but I doubt that you'd really notice any of this. Some of the smaller rectangular Facet pumps are actually a better spec match to the stock 308 fuel pump, but the round Facets do mount and plumb more easily.
Irishman--we have the same symptoms==good to know my issue is only an inexpensive waterpump. Steve--as usual, your info is golden--I'll go ahead and mount the Facet without worry.. Greg
With F36 emulsion tubes, the little square facet pumps are fine. Get into F24 tubes, and you need something to pump a good amount of fuel.
A loud one is better..... Just joining in the say the 5 PSI max is the one I have used, higher and you need a regulator....good to know the Purolater catalog number!!!
I installed the new Facet fuel pump today--problem solved. It was much quieter than the old stock one, actually...... Greg 77 GTB
For carb cars, no Facet pump is OEM as far as I know...they were all BCD Coronas and those you can hear before engine start, but barely...they are not very loud. Facet/Benedix pumps are kind of brutish. The Hardi pumps are what I have on by carb cars for replacements as they are a way better pump than the Facet/Bendix pumps and the noise is similar to the Corona. They are less expensive as well. I put all three of my working Coronas on a shelf.
All, I must have a corona pump on my 74 Euro GT4 and yesterday it started making a horrible noise. On my other 75 US GT4 I have a Facet pump I got from Pegasus Racing and it has been running fine for 10 years replacing another facet pump that was installed there. Pegasus had a part number on the box #1105 which was an internal part number and translates to the silver top version FAC 476087 which is the 4-5 psi. I don't mind the clicking and actually find it reassuring (im a drummer) that it's working. I never like the sound of this corona pump which sounded like it was gasping or choking. Now all I have to do is figure out what kind of fittings I need to get to screw in there, if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears! Over the years I've used Fchat as a great resource and some threads such as this one seem to have the most accumulated knowledge on a particular subject so I apologize for double posting, as I started another similar thread. I will post a few pics of my older facet pumps and the one I installed 10 years ago for reference! I have one more comment, when I replaced this older pump on my other GT4, the car sat for almost a year while I was doing all sorts of work on it. I found out that if these pumps sit for a long time without gasoline in them the rubber parts go bad and they leak badly. Someone suggested taking that rubber gasket at the bottom and putting it in a container of gasoline if you're going to have it dry for an extended period. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It says it on the Facet box -- the pump has 1/8" NPT (National Pipe Thread) female ports, so you need fittings that are 1/8" NPT male thread -to- 5/16" (or 8mm) hose fitting for 5/16" (or 8mm) rubber fuel hose. What is the Facet part number of the pump (I think the "1105" might be an internal Pegasus part number).
