At what point does mileage become irrelevant ?

First, you'll have to define what "high mileage" means. For a 2 year old exotic, maybe 10,000 would be high. For a 15 year old exotic, 50,000+ maybe? How many exotics have anywhere near that? Seems few.

As a shopper for a 15 year old Ferrari (360), low mileage is more of a warning sign than high mileage would be. I wouldn't bat an eye at a 360 with 30,000 miles on it. The thing that would concern me more are accidents, body repairs and especially damage not reported by the seller or carfax but discovered through examination, poor service records for the last 5 years, signs of abuse and neglect, modifications with non-factory parts (outside of exhaust), color change, repaint, low usage for the last 5 years and a car suffering from "no love" syndrome. I'm not looking for a concours car or a collectable. I'm looking for a fun car that has a good chance of being reasonably reliable and that I could drive 500 miles or more home after buying it without fear.

So for me, high mileage would indicate the car has actually been driven regularly by someone who has maintained it well enough that it didn't sit broken for very long.

 

I'd say that if the national average for a DD is 10-15K miles a year depending on region then an Exotic should land around 2K/year minimum. Any less and you have a car that could have issues from non use and truthfully even 2K a year is too low. These are machines that need lubrication distribution and regular use for a problem free ownership.

My 2014 Cali30 HS was 5 years old when I bought it this New Years Eve as a CPO. It had 4,600 miles on it and hard out of date tires. I noticed that over the next month as I drove it, it ran smoother and smoother. Day 1 startups were DAMN rough. Once I knocked the cobwebs out and gave it some TLC it ran better and better. I've put 5,000 miles on it in 7 months and it runs AWESOME now. It starts smooth, idles great, and pulls HARD. The worst thing we can do to these cars is let them sit.

In your situation If I was shopping for a F430 I'd want at LEAST 20K miles (with service records) as a bare min before even looking at it. How many miles on your ride?

 

When I look at Boxers or early carbed 308s, I do't even take note of the miles because its all about condition at that point, so I'll say 35 years old for me.

 

And I bet you don't regret a single mile!

 

42k on my 07 430 spider w/6 speed. Bought it new

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Low production number classic cars when 150 or less exist are mileage irrelevant to me.

all higher production classics that have been correctly restored from ground up seem
mostly mileage irrelevant also.

 

Mileage isn't a factor for me

 

Is the question asked in the context of my personal opinion or how I feel the market reacts in general? As you mentioned, it seems the older the car the less it matters.

For me, condition is above and beyond the most important thing.

Becomes more complicated for semi-new cars, as there is a reasonable expectation of an alignment with condition/wear and mileage for something that isn't 50 years old. This also has to bring into consideration, supply.

If you can buy for instance a 10k mile immaculate F430 for say, $165k it's hard to justify the same price for a 50k mile car regardless of condition.

Same stigma applies to paint.

I bought my F355 with 11k miles and was elated at the overall condition. Still, ended up re-spraying the entire front end due to rock chips. Some would prefer original paint, I prefer nice paint, so there we are. No concern as my car isn't and won't be for sale.

In regards to an F430, I think if you have photos showing exceptional overall condition and service records/etc to back up mechanical condition, you will find someone who appreciates those things. 50k miles might be higher than average for that car but I don't think it's a huge concern.

Lastly, not sure how anyone could say they would not consider a low mile car or, mileage isn't a factor? Every car has to be considered on an individual basis and mileage, while not the most important thing still has to be considered.

Looking for at least 20k miles but would turn down a perfect 15k mile car? Doubt it.

Mileage doesn't matter but would buy a 150k mile F-car for the same price as a 50k mile car of the same condition? Doubt that as well.

 

after 50 yrs it stops mattering....

 

66k on my '93 348 serie speciale and she looks and run better thsn most lower mileage specimen I've seen in my area. IMHO

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66k Miles on my 99' 360.
People won't care when they CAN'T care. In other words, buyers are always going to price mileage down until they can't.
Nobody cares about a 250's mileage because they can't use it as a negotiation tool due to rarity. "I want one with less than 20,000 miles and NO accidents". Well good luck with that.
Later mass produced cars will be mileage irrelevant when there aren't 10 other cars just like yours or *similar enough* that the buyer won't be able to find one like it. For example, if I ever decide to sell my 3-pedal (it happens due to illness in family, etc) do I think I'll get $90k for it? No. It has a ton of miles. I'd HAVE to reduce the price. OTOH if someone would pipe up and offer me $35k for it (and there would be at least 6 guys offering less than 40 cause Youtube salvage car') I'd probably laugh out loud because there aren't enough other red, 3-pedal cars with factory sport seats out there that he would have as leverage.

 

Very well said. Every bit. As far as owners being able to put a lot of miles on regularly, I can tell you that those of us north of the mason-dixon line only have about 6 months a year to use our cars, and then take into account our busy lifestyles, and you will find that putting even 1000 miles a year can become a challenge especially with the constant rainy weather. But to answer this post: Condition is king.

 

Doesn't really matter for race cars, vintage cars, or for anything that underwent a complete restoration no matter the age imo.

 

Milage is irrelevant when your car is stolen or totaled.

 

i dont think i will be selling any ferraris, if i can help it, so the mileage on my own cars is irrelevant - the more mileage, the higher my fun quotient must have been.

as for other people's cars, that may eventually be sold, mileage is a myth and a relatively arbitrary distinguishing feature.
as many people have already said, if all the other aspects are similar, most would consider the lower mileage car to be of higher value.
for classic cars, especially vintage ones, mileage is almost irrelevant.
in general for low volume cars, reasonable mileage is actually better imo because it shows that the car actually works.

 

Mileage is irrelevant from "000001". It's all how the car is kept. An owner that keeps good care of the vehicle will be 1. rewarded with a reliable vehicle, and 2. rewarded when it comes time to sell.

1991 Ferrari 348 has 1201 miles. It's so original, oil never changed.

...and i'm going to contend rebuilt title doesn't matter, it depends on how much damage, who did the work, and if there's photo document of the process (ala Bradan). Look at '68-71 dodge charger restorations nowadays. Some of these cars start with a cowl and the jig.

sjd

 

Meaningful 1-0f-1 spec, and/or unique & desirable provenance - as this car will always be the lowest mileage of its kind regardless of how far it has been driven.

 

Gerald Roush used to say only three things mattered: condition, condition, condition.

 

I agree with everything you wrote. That said, the market does not agree with us. High mileage in a 15-year old Ferrari can be amazingly few miles.

So, for a 15 year old exotic, let's take the quasi-collectible 2004 Challenge Stradale.

At age 15, the market for sub-5000 mile "collector cars" is $250k and up.

The market for "driver cars" with over 20,000 miles is $150,000-$180,000 range.

Those so-called driver cars have 20,000 miles in 15 years, an average of 1300 miles per year! Yet that "usage" (can one call 100 miles per month "usage?) costs 40% off the value of one that has been essentially unused.

The above is true for other higher-volume Ferrari's too of course, albeit with higher mileage amounts. But even for a base 2005 430 (a soon to be 15-year old car), "high" mileage would be 30,000...that's only 2000 miles per year.

The truth of the matter is that for a huge percentage of owners/potential-owners, these are not cars to be driven. They are status symbols bought to stroke the ego, signal accomplishment, and then be resold with minimal loss of money. Since the cars are expensive and a primary goal for most buyers is too not lose a boatload of cash on the car, they tend to buy low-mileage cars and then hardly drive them so they can, in turn, sell a low mileage car when their ego is sufficiently stroked and/or requires a different ferrari to regain the pleasure from being stroked. Most will deny this course. But honestly is as rare as kindness and putting others first in humans.

 

excellent post. Seriously... that might be the best post ive ever read on here.

Also, I might add to the actual topic at hand that... I would say mileage doesn't matter after the 2nd restoration.

Mileage provides some indication of the restoration and what they had to start with etc... But after the 2nd restoration the manufacture is essentially the guy restoring the car. He either corrected everything the 1st guy did wrong, or botched what that guy did right.

 

which is the ultimate irony isnt it?
the rich guy who is using the exotic car to signal how successful he is, and how much disposable income he has, is then concerned about preserving the car so that he can resell it and recoup the maximum amount.....ie, he really does care about the money. i know that wealthy people did not get wealthy by being stupid about money, but if the very object of their signaling is part of the penny pinching, it just totally negates the message imo.
IF you are genuinely wealthy, then what do you care about the residual value of the car?
and the more you use it, the more people will witness your 'success'. no??

 

The OP question itself is irrelevant when you don't have an odometer
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2uwvth8yvvbf7bb/dash.JPG?dl=0

Best regards,

Robert