Ferrari 456gta 1996 no power to the ac pump | FerrariChat

Ferrari 456gta 1996 no power to the ac pump

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by adrian456gta, Aug 10, 2019.

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  1. adrian456gta

    adrian456gta Karting

    Mar 23, 2017
    62
    Kalgoorle Wa
    Full Name:
    Adrian Harper
    Hi all
    My 456 has a few electrical issues, one of which is the air conditioning doesn’t work. I took it to get it re-gassed but found out the gas was fine but ac pump wasn’t getting power to engage it when turned on. It hasn’t worked since I have had it. Where should I start looking?

    Couple of other issues as possibly related:

    Suspension adjustment switch doesn’t do anything , actuators on the shocks don’t turn when switch used. But I don’t have a warning light on the dash either

    Dash lights flicker continuously at night sometimes. More often than not
     
  2. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

    Jun 30, 2010
    1,190
    CA & DC
    Sorry, can’t help you with the first two issues, but for the flickering dash lights, try adjusting the dimmer wheel on the dash. That will probably fix the issue.
     
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  3. adrian456gta

    adrian456gta Karting

    Mar 23, 2017
    62
    Kalgoorle Wa
    Full Name:
    Adrian Harper
    Any help greatly appreciated killer58. Hadn’t thought of that I’ll give it a go
     
  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Try percussing the pressure switches on top of the receiver-dryer (dehydrator filter) with the blunt end of a screwdriver. Failing that, you could try swapping out relevant relay (relay B?) on the footpad relay panel with a similar relay. Say, the heated rear window relay? That seems to have the same part number. Check your driver's manual. Sorry, I don't know if the receiver-dryer is accessible on the 456GTA (it's in the right front corner of the engine compartment, just in front of the wheel arch (to the right of the compressor).

    In theory, if your pressure switches are kaput, you can short out the pins on the pressure switch plug to earth (as part of faultfinding), but I haven't been able to figure out which switch is which on the receiver-dryer. Possibly a green wire with a black stripe, but if it's a 4 pin plug, you have to know what to do with the other set of contacts (open or short circuit them)
     
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  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #5 Qavion, Aug 10, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    By relevant relay, I meant the compressor control relay. Here's the location on a 456M. Perhaps the same as a GTA?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    See also the fuse in that diagram. If you have a blown fuse, however, expect further problems. Do you have fog lights? If so, check that they are working as per the owner's manual.
     
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  6. Gizzi

    Gizzi F1 Veteran
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    Dec 3, 2011
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    Why didn’t the guy who was going to regas it, diagnose it?
    They have trouble with the main control panel in the centre console. It could be almost anything though. A simple bad connection, a relay, a fuse, the pressure switch etc. etc. You need to get a test light and start tracing it.
    The suspension problem could also be anything. Have you accessed the suspension control ECU? Perhaps it’s unplugged? If your shocks are buggered, or actuators are stuffed, someone may have disconnected it to stop the warning light coming on.
    They aren’t a very complicated system if you know what you are doing (auto Electrician) but if you aren’t, and like to do your own stuff, get a wiring schematic, a good volt meter and an incandescent globe test light and start from the basics. Fuses, relays, triggers.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    That's half the problem :D ... especially if you live in Kalgoorlie

    I pieced together a Frankenstein-type wiring schematic from 456M and 550 wiring diagrams...

    Typical HVAC Compressor Control Circuit



    It may or may not be correct for the 456GTA. I don't know how power gets to the compressor from the relay panel. Via one of the engine plugs?
     
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  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    The minimum pressure switch on the receiver-dryer needs to close when the gas pressure is ok (to allow compressor operation). Would anyone know if the maximum pressure switch on the receiver dryer goes open circuit or closed circuit with too much pressure?
     
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  9. Gizzi

    Gizzi F1 Veteran
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    You won’t have too much pressure. The pressure required to cut out at high is over 350. Have you got power at the pressure switch?


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  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I realised that. But the low pressure (or high pressure) switch could be faulty. As part of the faultfinding process, I was wondering if the plug could be removed and the two switches shorted (or one left open circuit) to simulate proper operation of the switches. If you remove the plug, both switches go open circuit. The right signals have to be sent to the relay and the HVAC ECU.
     
  11. adrian456gta

    adrian456gta Karting

    Mar 23, 2017
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    Kalgoorle Wa
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    Adrian Harper
    You would think I would have thought to look and see if the ecu was unplugged before I tested everything else. It would explain why I dont get a warning light.
    Do you know where the ecu for the suspension is located?
     
  12. adrian456gta

    adrian456gta Karting

    Mar 23, 2017
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    Kalgoorle Wa
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    Adrian Harper
    I will have to check
     
  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    The 456M workshop manual describes the switches on the receiver-dryer as having three functions:

    minimum system operating pressure 2 bar
    maximum system operating pressure 25bar compressor off/20 bar compressor back on
    15 bar - right radiator fan on

    Not being able to figure out how you get 3 functions from two switches, I chased the wires in the manual coming from the pressure switches:

    Switch 1: Right Radiator Fan relay control
    NZ (black with purple stripe) wire is an earth.
    NV (black with green stripe) wire is the output of the radiator fan fan switch. It's also in parallel with a radiator temperature switch. The temperature and pressure switches send an earth to the Right Fan Relay on the footwell relay panel

    Switch 2: Compressor Relay control
    VN (green with black stripe) wire sends an earth signal to the HVAC compressor relay when the "min-max" pressure switch is closed
    N (black) wire is an earth.

    The one (compressor) switch seems to handle all this:

    minimum operating pressure 2 bar
    maximum operating pressure 25bar compressor off/20 bar compressor back on

    So, basically, if you pull off the plug and jumper just the VN and N wires, the compressor should work (if the switch was faulty)

    Of course, all this can be thrown away if the GTA is different from the M version.

    Diagram updated:

    Typical 456? Pressure Switch Circuit
     
  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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  15. Gizzi

    Gizzi F1 Veteran
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    You won’t need to short out any plugs. Just use a test light with an incandescent globe. When you probe the circuit, if it’s a bad pressure switch, the test light will be enough to activate the pump relay. The system is pretty basic, so fault finding is very simple. I’d be surprised if it is a faulty switch though, the HVAC units play up a fair bit. I’ve replaced them in various customers cars. I don’t think they are available new any more, but second hand ones are available. Have you checked all your basics yet?
    Start with the fuses. Then check to see if the clutch relay has live at term 30 (battery). 85 and 86 are your relay coil terms and should have ignition on one of them. The other is the neg trigger.


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  16. adrian456gta

    adrian456gta Karting

    Mar 23, 2017
    62
    Kalgoorle Wa
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    Adrian Harper
    Haven’t really tested anything yet. I put this post up before starting so I knew where to start before just stumbling around in the dark. You guys are a massive help
     
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  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Adrian, just be aware that if you do go poking around with a test lamp, with the key in ON and put one of the leads of the test lamp on the wrong terminal on the receiver dryer, you may trigger the radiator fan. Watch your fingers.

    Jumper leads and test lamps each have their pros and cons. A jumper lead costs next to nothing and you can move away from the engine compartment before applying power. Test lamps confirm power.
    To save yourself trying to solder wires onto a 12 volt lamp or lamp holder, you can order a test lamp with a probe and crocodile clip for $10 on eBay, but I don't know how quick the mail is in your part of the world.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Circuit-Tester-Car-Automotive-Light-Probe-Voltage-Pen-Test-Tool-DC-6V-24V-AU/323848107847?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4b66d9f747
     

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