Needs lots of leather work and, except for the FHP, is pretty bare.
Morning all, still lurking around. So, do any of you feel that environmental legislation is effecting values of 575s and other modern-classics? As a Londoner I speak of Citizen Khan's Ultra low Emission Zone and the possible adoption of similar schemes in other British cities. £10 or so a day maybe doesn't break the bank for a 575M manual owner but it does annoy and perhaps indicate a direction of travel for the country. Classic cars (40 years and over) get an exemption but by the time a 575 is that old I possibly wont be driving. Will we see a gradual reduction of value as the green net tightens, or will there always be gentlemen buyers who don't much care and will pay up for exclusivity?
I'm just outside the M25 (that's the ring road around London for non UK people) and I rarely drive into London. Parking, congestion and the general unpleasantness of the place makes me use public transport or Black Cabs. Your average Ferrari owner in the UK generally has 4 or more cars. So it's likely one of those will be chosen with whatever restrictions are imposed if needs mean you must drive in one of these zones. I guess you'd then choose to keep your non compliant cars outside of the zone. Much of this stuff has passed over my head as my wife is disabled and a Blue Badge holder. To that end all our cars are registered in her name meaning we're exempt from most tolls, charges and restrictions. Even with these benefits I will only drive into London if there's no other alternative (say my wife has a medical appointment etc). In Westminster a blue badge provides very little concession at all. The one huge benefit being that as the vehicle is registered to a disabled owner it cannot be towed or clamped - but we do get a parking ticket. So we just accept if we're unable to find a disable bay or appropriate parking space that our parking cost for that day will be whatever the ticket costs - £60 usually. The reality is London can't cope with the volume of traffic it attracts, but there are better ways to go about dealing with it than the schemes currently being dreamt up and implemented.
2002 575M Manual RHD UK Asking price dropped to £135K. This car had been on sale for some time at Nick Cartwright for £150K. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201909051889300?advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&postcode=tn86qj&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&make=FERRARI&radius=1500&model=575M&page=1
While the seller seems to be grudgingly moving towards reality, this car would sell closer to £110k than the new asking price in the current market, particularly given where an otherwise similar F1 would be trading. And anyone who thinks a 20K mile RHD car still trades £180k (suggested in posts above) is smoking dope. Also, it seems (but I have no definitive data) that the RHD premium in the UK for collectables is shrinking. Could partly be the prospect of import taxes in what is now a more isolated RHD market with currently limited demand. My dealer said that he is seeing for the first time UK buyers order collectable cars like Pista etc as LHD (so EU delivery) as buyers think about the future size of the RHD market. Add to that the talk of wealth taxes etc in an extreme case, people might prefer their cars to be more "mobile".
Honestly I think £110k would surprise me. A 46k mile 2002 575M F1 to this spec would be what right now? I'm seeing 20K mile cars sell for low to mid £70k's so a 46K mile car has to start with a 6 at least you think? £110k is still an 80% to 90% premium. I'd call it now closer to £80k to £90K real world private sale price. Which in reality means it's probably just not going to sell whilst the owner still has memories of £200K manual 575's.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ferrari/auction-2352365268.htm?rsqid=bb4a7257e65c4434983b4f86bd1ebd80-002 This is ex-Furlonger 575M 6 speed. NZD390k is c.GBP190k. per an earlier post in this thread (page 6) it was originally offered in 2016 at GBP225k.
https://michaelwisecars.co.uk/product/ferrari-575m-manual/ The Verde manual 575 has moved again. Asking price is now £125K - he would take £120K for a quick sale. Not SOR - the dealer has bought this into stock.
I had a cheeky bid at £100K and he said he'd given more than that for the car. It's getting closer to reality though and I can see you're starting to get tempted......
Price point 23/11/2019 - Brooklands Historics Auctions UK. 2004 575M Manual FHP Rosso over Nero - 32,017 miles - Imported from Japan 2017. https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2019-11-23/cars/ref-125-2004-ferrari-575m-maranello/ Hammer = £85,000 - No Sale.
My guess would be that the facts that it is LHD being sold in the UK, and a Japanese import, contributed to the the poor showing by this lot. Bear in mind that a buyer would have to add commission of 10% + VAT, so the cost to him would be £95,200. Then there is the usual issue with buying at auction - no PPI, no comeback, not even a test drive. Throw in the time of year for good measure, and you have an explanation for £85K not being representative of the price of a Euro spec. car on a dealer's forecourt in Europe in the Spring. I would surmise that the high bidder was either an opportunist taking a big risk and building in an appropriate contingency, or a dealer expecting to spend a few bob and retail on a 50% margin.
Much of that could be absolutely spot on. Alternatively, the appetite for these cars may simply have cooled and we're returning to reality. In most cases the LHD/RHD price disparity seems to have almost disappeared from the UK market, on the grounds that prices have softened here to a degree that LHD cars are just so attractive in their respective markets that they become a bargain (when combined with a weak pound). With low volume cars (in this case factory manual 575M's) as there are so few of them some of the normal "effects" often don't apply or have a less dramatic effect on the value than if were a regular car (an F1). Personally I think it's a combination of your points with a return to reality. The manuals are simply not worth double an F1 car (all things being the same) in today's market.
Yes, a massive premium for a manual 575 over an F1 is ridiculous, especially when the rarity value is diluted by there being a plentiful supply of almost identical manuals in the form of the 550. It's not the same as, say, a manual 599.
Some things don’t add up here. Too many tbc’s in the auction listing (notably chassis number) (although the dedication plate states Matricolo no. 128470) No UK registration plates (so can’t check the MOT history online) ‘Imported from Japan’ but the round side markers are EU specification so perhaps it is an EU spec car that had spent some time in Japan... Listing states that is is a 2004 but it clearly isn’t. The Dedication plate refers to the 2001 World Championship (suggesting that it may be a very early car, possibly 2002) and I don’t see the superfluous casting on the intake plenum which is a feature of all motors built from 2003 onwards (not sure of precise assembly number)
How unrealistic some of the manual prices are was evidenced by the lhd euro F1 fetching £ 52080 (probably including commission) in the same sale as the Japanese manual in #639
It’s much harder to sell LHD in the UK, and while it’s hard to argue a price differential, 30 to 35 per cent discount over UK RHD is still a good rule of thumb if you speak to dealers, plus a lot more hassle and far smaller pool of buyers. I own one LHD Ferrari and a few RHD ones, and of course the driving pleasure is equal.
Interesting. I am looking for a Bentley Continental R Coupe for a friend. We are only looking for a LHD car as we are going to use it in Sweden and France. Do you have any idea where we could find such a car at a bargain price now while it is winter and before Brexit etc....
Pistonheads is probably a good place to look Erik. Here's what I found:- A Sedanca Coupe LHD. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bentley/continental/1999-bentley-continental-sc-for-sale-in-london-lhd/10112402 https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C813890 These people are well known Bentley specialists. https://www.marlowcars.co.uk/?utm_source=CarandClassic.co.uk&utm_medium=portal Or Car and Classic:- https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/list/9/continental+r/
The 30% to 35% rule of thumb only applies when all things are equal. So normally I'd say you're about right but we currently have a market disparity with mainland Europe. Sure the mainland is depressed but not as much as the UK market currently is. So LHD cars are selling (and repatriating to a LHD country) at almost the same price as a similar RHD car here. Example. The ferrari centre sold this LHD 550 for a chap in the Netherlands at full ask. - £69,995 https://www.tfcgb.com/previously-sold/7105786-ferrari-550-maranello-lhd/ They've taken a deposit on this RHD (and recently sold another 4 or 5 around this number). https://www.tfcgb.com/used-cars/6886067-ferrari-550-maranello/ - £74,995 assuming it's going at full ask. There's just not the huge disparity there has been in the past.