Anyone run nitrogen in there tires

there is the proposition "inflating your tires with nitrogen reduces the rate of thermo-oxidative processes, which can cause degradation of rubber properties over time. Though ordinary air is mostly (approximately 78%) nitrogen, it is the 21% of oxygen that can react with the rubber as it diffuses through it. Of course, most tires are designed to operate just fine with air inflation, but inflating your tires with nitrogen can definitely improve your tire life and performance."

i doubt if anyone has looked at oxidation based damage on the polymeric state of a tire (couldn't find a good or any paper on this in my search of the chemical literature) - so it gets back to the idea of personal preference..... smiles we've also learned that some prefer their own facts and that is is therefore incontrovertible

 

Costco is cheaper.. Anyone know what a Ferrari dealer charges for Tire nitrogen?.... $1500
.what was it that PT Barnun said?......

 

https://www.getnitrogen.org

Not saying it isn't true, but not exactly an unbiased source.

T

 

I think this is the gent who made "dont confuse me with facts" famous.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Landgrebe

I think one of the two papers I cited above made the claim that N2 fills would reduce oxidative damage. Given what little I know about polymers, that seems a reasonable benefit of N2. My gut feeling though, is most oxidative damage to tires comes from outside the tire due to light, heat and environmental stress.

 

Do people not wear their tires out before they degrade through age?

 

I think the post that started this discussion asked about "garage queens". I would assume that most normal users wear them out, before they

I think one of the earlier posts was in reference to garage queens. I could see that for that sub-species of autos, N2 fill might be an extra layer of precaution.

BTW, fun fact, nitrogen - the molecule not the atom - is one of the top industrial chemicals produced in the world. Usually # 2 right behind sulfuric acid.
T

 

Re nitrogen "not heating up as much" as air - nonsense. Both are Ideal Gases, and follow the same Ideal Gas Law, PV=nRT. Nitrogen and air will expand exactly the same amount for the same temperature increase. It's the law.

Regarding diffusion of air through rubber, resulting in lower pressure... IF this were true, we can consider this scenario.

1) Initial fill of tire with air. Nitrogen content = 78%

Now we assume that all the non-nitrogen air molecules leak out, leaving only 78% of the initial volume of gas in place, the nitrogen molecules. However long that takes... (months, years?)

2) Top up/refill tire with air. Now we have the same tire with it's continuing original 78% nitrogen, plus 78% of the 22% we had to add; that's 17.16% nitrogen and 4.84% air added. Now we have 78% + 17.16% = 95.16% Nitrogen in our tire. After only ONE refill, our tire filled using air is already at 95% Nitrogen!! (Assuming, again, that all the non-nitrogen molecules leak out as the pro-nitrogen advocates would have us believe)

3) Once again, darn it, all the non-nitrogen molecules have leaked out of our tire, and we're left with the 95.16% volume of nitrogen only. So we top up/refill the tire with air for the missing 4.84%, which means we've now added another 3.78% nitrogen and 1.06% air - which means our tire, after only 2 top ups of air, is now at 98.94% Nitrogen!!! But still, that 0.4 psi of non-nitrogen molecules will probably leak out too...

4) Top up one last time, this should do it. Our tire still had 98.94% Nitrogen in it, so we add 1.06% air, which is 0.83% Nitrogen and 0.23% air. After 3 top ups with air to replace the non-nitrogen molecules that leaked out (assuming we believe that all the non-nitrogen molecules will leak out as the nitrogen industry tells us), our tire now contains 99.77% Nitrogen.

So, if you believe in the benefits of nitrogen for your street tires - don't pay anyone to pump nitrogen in. Just top up your tires a couple of times and you will have better than 99% nitrogen in your tires anyway!!!

I'm not sure how the nitrogen industry overlooks this glaring flaw in their sales pitch, I guess they assume that most of their customers don't know physics, chemistry, or math.

 

What you all are forgetting is that water vapor has a vapor pressure too. And water's vapor pressure is not linear with temperature.

However, if you never get your tires up to 200ºF it simply does not matter; and it takes a lot of hard driving to get the tires up to that kind of temperature.

Thus, track cars, driven "as if in anger" might be able to use N2 for some positive gain.
Other applications, probably not.

 

Here's a negative to nitrogen; I live in a college town, college kids think green valve stem caps mean you never have to check tire pressure.
Selling nitrogen for street tires is as stupid as selling drinking water in plastic bottles.

A dry gas has advantages in race cars and airplane tires. For the street its a gimmick.

Remember when Ferrari was experimenting with hydrofluorocarbons for their F1 cars?
They came up with this combo: 52 per cent Tetrafluoroethane, 44 per cent Pentafluoroethane and 4 per cent Trifluoroethane. This mixture, known as HFC R404 A, was found to be most effective in racing tires when it was mixed 50/50 with CO2. This gas actually helped heat transfer from the tire to the wheel, keeping the tire cooler.
It was banned. Now you are allowed air or nitrogen in F1.

 

We're getting close. Somebody's gonna bust out the steam tables soon!
T

 

If you think nitrogen is expensive, just ask your Fcar dealer what the charge is for ltalian air. Sure the car is faster, but is it really worth it?

 

Similarly, we used Nitrogen to fill tires at the track, only because we already had tanks/regulators/hoses set-up to run our tools way out in the paddock, and would roll a single set-up to the pits/grid in case we needed anything last-moment.

 

From my personal experience. There is absolutely a difference. You can throw all the science journals at me you want and track say this or that. But there is 100% a difference.

The damn tire light used to make my life miserable.... And I have nitrogen to that k for getting rid of it.

You see I live in one of the hottest places on Earth. Lol. Phoenix and in the summer where it can still be 105 at midnight. Your tires get extremely hot. So hot that they typically ruin and DESTROY epoxy floors but that's another story.

My life would be hell because I would leave and go to our place at the beach in San Diego and the next day or on the drive back the damn tire light would always be on and traveling 400 miles across the desert at 80 plus mph with underinflated tires is miserable. Especially in the days where you just had a monitor and not a pressure display and the combo of run flats. You can't tell if the tire is low or flat or just a faulty light or sensor without getting out and checking every tire. Getting a flat or blow out on a Sunday in the middle of the desert rearranges your next 48hrs.

You see we would leave phx when it's 118 degree with road temps probably at or near 200. Go 80 for 400 miles and then park 100 feet from the water where it's 66 degrees.

Filling up with nitrogen has eliminated the hassle of dicking around with air pressure

 

I fill mine with helium.
Reduces unsprung weight, and I like the higher pitch squeal my tires make when cornering...very NASCAR....to hell with f1 sounds.

 

I use regular air.

I guess I am a dumbass

 

Less moisture when using nitrogen correctly. It gets pretty cold up there.

• The space shuttle tires are filled with nitrogen (as are most aircraft tires) due to the shuttle's stability at different altitudes and temperatures.
  • Shuttle tires go from in excess of -40 degrees Fahrenheit in space to +130 degrees Fahrenheit on landing in a matter of minutes.

https://www.nasa.gov/aeroresearch/resources/artifact-opportunities/tire-basic-facts/

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