430 - Diffuser captive nuts broken | FerrariChat

430 Diffuser captive nuts broken

Discussion in '360/430' started by West Point, Nov 23, 2019.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. West Point

    West Point Karting

    Oct 21, 2019
    57
    Full Name:
    West Point
    Has anyone had the problem where the three captive nuts which receive the rear diffuser bolts have broken free ? These bolts are (were) welded inside a hollow metal spar positioned roughly between the rear wheels, the bolts secure the rear edge of the under tray and the front edge of the rear diffuser. Without the captive nuts to screw the three bolts into it is difficult to see how the tray and diffuser might be secured.

    I am struggling to find a solution.
     
  2. ItalGerBrit

    ItalGerBrit Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2016
    817
    S La
    The Rifledriver link is not opening and whatever he recommends is what I would use. I had the same problem years ago and replaced the spinning nutserts on my 360.
     
  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Called AVK inserts in the uk
     
  4. cpep

    cpep Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2017
    399
    new york
    Full Name:
    CHARLIE
    You can also buy the original ones from Ricambi.
     
  5. West Point

    West Point Karting

    Oct 21, 2019
    57
    Full Name:
    West Point
    Never seen these before - I guess I just never needed them.

    So I imagine that the original nuts that broke off will rattle around inside that steel section forever, or is there a suitable opening somewhere so that they might be fished out?

    Nutcerts ordered - thanks for the information.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    I assume u have ordered the installing tool for the incerts ?
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    34,119
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall

    Aluminum, and no there is not.
     
  8. West Point

    West Point Karting

    Oct 21, 2019
    57
    Full Name:
    West Point
     
  9. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    When you install these inserts, be careful not to use too much force on the handles- it is possible to tear the threads out of the small size. Just enough so the insert grips
     
  10. West Point

    West Point Karting

    Oct 21, 2019
    57
    Full Name:
    West Point
    All noted - thanks for the advice. Given that the previous nuts have effectively been “ripped” from their locations in the aluminium strut, I guess the uneven holes that are left behind are best reamed back to a bigger but nicely round hole before using the new inserts?
     
  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    As the insert thread size goes up, the outer diameter of the insert increases, no need to ream out- just use a file. No reason you could not put some Araldite on the outside before you squeeze it up. Or what ever they call 2 part epoxy in your neck of the woods
     
    EastMemphis likes this.
  12. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    what is the part #, do you re call?
     
  13. cpep

    cpep Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2017
    399
    new york
    Full Name:
    CHARLIE
    They sell every size. It wasn't easy to find but there is a page with all the fasteners for that section of the car. So if you go to let's say rear frame there is a page at the beginning with the fasteners for the rear frame. You need to know the size bolts that go there and then just pick the right nutcert. I just bought a few of every size so I had them on hand.
     
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    34,119
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Ferrari used aluminum inserts which is part of the problem. The steel inserts are a better repair. The frame section in question usually needs a little repair and in some cases for the holes to be enlarges just slightly for proper fit of the particular inserts I use. They should be 6mm if possible. On many cars I have seen prior attempts at repair damage the frame enough that it was impossible to use 6mm inserts and I had to go up to 8mm. If a good quality repair isn't made it will snowball into a bigger job next time. If unfamiliar or ill equipped to do this have it done by someone who knows how. I have fixed far too many that have been butchered in the past.
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    34,119
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    If the proper part, tool and technique is used epoxy will not make it a better repair. If the proper part, tool and technique isn't used epoxy will not make it a better repair.


    Ferrari does not use epoxy and the manufacturers of the inserts are not suggesting its use either.
     
  16. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 25, 2019
    1,742
    Memphis, TN
    Full Name:
    John
    #17 EastMemphis, Nov 27, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
    I suspect the reason they used aluminum inserts instead of steel or another metal is the dissimilar metals corrosion problem. It can take years but it is going to happen. Unless there's a moderator between the steel and aluminum, one or both metals will corrode and eventually fall apart. Using similar metals, even though aluminum threads are pathetically weak, is the way for a manufacturer to go unless they want to go to extraordinary efforts to be sure there is something between the metals to stop galvanic corrosion.

    If a steel insert is used, the epoxy could help mitigate corrosion.
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    34,119
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall

    Its called "zinc".

    We have been using them for several decades now.
     
    EastMemphis likes this.
  18. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    The inserts are plated and i have used them with salt water so they are pretty robust. Come with a shiny green finish which i think is cadmium with a passivation coat to seal the cadmium. Might have changed since i retired through as cadmium not so popular these days.
     
  19. ItalGerBrit

    ItalGerBrit Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2016
    817
    S La
    #20 ItalGerBrit, Nov 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
    About the rattling of the loose cert, or something else, behind the seats of my 360 Modena. Have had one loose in the cross frame tube that forms the lower part of the engine access area and just got used to it rattling in corners. No access port so I thought about just pumping in a blob of grease in one of the bolt holes and letting the loose whatever it is get snagged by the grease. Or maybe injecting some insulation foam in a similar fashion and them driving the car around until it gets snagged in that?
    Do these ideas seem to make maybe a little sense? Does not seem like it will hurt anything.
     
  20. Hocakes

    Hocakes Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2010
    463
    FL
    This might help if there is a hole somewhere to get the cable into the tube.

    https://www.parktool.com/product/internal-cable-routing-kit-ir-1-2


     

Share This Page