Hello, I am in the process of fitting a new water pump on my 575. I’ve bought the water pump from ricambi complete with o ring. I’ve got the old pump off. Changed the pulley, torqued all up. Now, when fitting the new pump, whatever I do, the gasket is breaking. I am gently pushing it, slowly turning the bolts in circular to make it fit. And it fits. Out of curiosity I’ve unmounted thé pump to see if the o ring did fit fine and I found it broken. I am at my second o ring. For the info, I’ve tried to have it greased with cooling water or oil before insertion to facilitate the thing - result do not change. What am I doing wrong ? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I have never run into that. I know unlike some other parts suppliers Ricambi does not buy generic O rings. Just the same supply chains do screw up. I'd measure the O ring and be sure the section diameter is correct. I would also measure the O ring groove and be sure it is the same width and depth as the old pump.
Thanks rifledriver. I have checked and found out why the o ring is getting cut/jammed each time. Actually ricambi or oring from Ferrari (part 137868) doesn’t change - they are both the right diameter, thickness and, I would say, even consistency. The issue seems to reside in the pump groove itself which doesn’t leave enough space for the o ring to squeeze.The missing clearance makes the oring jammed in between water pump flat surface and water pump body. It ends up fitting, but it kills the oring Pic 1 shows ricambi’s pump: Image Unavailable, Please Login Pic 2 original Ferrari part: Image Unavailable, Please Login You might see that the two pumps differ on where the groove for the oring is sitting. With the o ring in place, it is even easier to see. New pump and o ring in place, there is no clearance for the oring to squeeze: Image Unavailable, Please Login Original pump, 1-2 mm of clearance for the oring to squeeze and fit to water pump body: Image Unavailable, Please Login I ve talked to David from Ricambi - probably will get refunded- as these pumps doesn’t seem to fit -at least my- 575. Just for the record, I am servicing a 355 as well and its original pump shows the same clearance as my original 575 (no matter if ricambi or Ferrari genuine oring): Image Unavailable, Please Login Guess I'll need to end up with my own rebuild...
Try an O ring with slightly smaller cross section so it's not tight in the gap, or slightly smaller diameter as the stretch will cause the gap to open up.
It is incredible the total loss of hand skills of people today. Everyday it gets harder and harder to find any person capable of doing more then getting something in a box off a shelf. Any low volume creation even if new, and not made by a robot, is subject to failure. In the last 5 years I have had more problems with waterpumps new and rebuilt and rebuilding them myself due to inferior parts than in my previous 35 years fixing cars. I consider your problem as a total lack of attention to detail and one hand not knowing what the other is doing. Each has their own job and they did it. No one looked over their shoulder or check part sources and so the problem is yours. I can't tell you how many times O-rings that come with a product are the wrong size like you are experiencing. It happens so often that I stock all kinds of O-ring sizes because a good percentage of times I'm pitching their oring for one in my box. I always check O-rings before installation because this problem you are experiencing is so prevalent. I have on occasion found it faster when I did not have the o-ring I needed to make my own gasket and just glue it. If you use thin paper with sealant you can seal it up and not alter the clearance appreciably. It is the wrong way to do it but you have a nice land there to seal against and sometimes a nail works just as good as a cotter pin. Sometimes if the mating surfaces are good you can just seal it use the old o-ring and seal it. I love Loctite 518. It is an awesome case sealant. On my racecar in the pits on jackstands in a hurry between sessions I sealed up an oily sort of quickly cleaned off differential side cover as the oil was still dripping out of the case. I put the 518 on wiped the case leak which reappears in a couple seconds slammed on the case the bolted figuring I would fix it right after the race. It didn't leak! Years later I sold the car and it still did not leak. On Ferraris I also always place the pump body and tighten the bolts and spin the pump by hand to test fit. On several occasions there were clearance issues of impeller to body on NEW Ferrari pumps because these guys are just MO-RONS. You can feel them drag. So I just clearanced them with some clay and moved on. I know of 2 355 guys whose plastic impellers sheared off leaving the hub with some plastic on it. I have no proof of what happened and both were just after installation or under 500miles but I suspect those impellers were touching the pump body and blew apart. I never thought much about it until once I installed and new Ferrari 348 pump and by chance a spun the pully and I heard it rub! After that I check them ALL! Ferrari has no clue what quality control is.
I wonder why I am the first finding the issue. The answer might be very simple: I am the first one which after fitting, thought it would be a good idea to open it again and check the condition of the seal. Clearly, when fitting it in, you can't see the seal and what is happening inside. It is only afterwards, after service or if a water leaks start to be there that opening is needed again. I have a 575 and I consider myself lucky enough to have the water pump really accessible. Imagine for a 355 owner what could happen. Best can happen is to remove the gas tank and all the work which goes with it. Worst, engine out again, and this just in terms of work. Leaking in that position, near to the timing belts, isn't something I would like to see on any car. Whatever - I've got refunded. I am doing my first water pump rebuild and see what happens..
Search for my Thread on water pump rebuild 550 section. It talks about placing seal. Later the seal changed and the ceramic is super fragile unlike anything you have ever seen before...aka cheap pos. So ricambi has special tool to seat seal and not put fracture pressure on ceramic or there should be pics there of my homemade tool to do the same. Just make something that supports the seal if the 575 is similar to the 550
I have seen your post fatbillybob and will follow it. 575/550/456/355/612 pump bodies are all very similar (even identical i would say). Impellers and pulleys look different. My impeller looks ok - am more worried about the bearing that is clearly shot. I ve started to pull it out but it really need a good press to come out. I guess that if pressing it in again is so difficult and the seal is so fragile I will really need the tool from ricambi. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Follow up: So taken apart the 575 and a 355 water pump. Respectively 2002 and 1995. Apart very small differences in outside body, bearings and seals are the same. Now, I’ve dismantled the 355 old pump just to check the front seal (the famous ceramic - carbon - spring actuated seal). Might be that I don’t fully understand how it works - but why the ricambi tool is needed here ? For me, a 34 socket, is fitting perfectly and hitting only the seal where it should (the metal lip). It doesn’t force on the ceramic part nor on any other delicate part. Before I am doing this way, maybe somebody can spread some light on this topic ? A few attached pictures so everybody sees what I mean. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Replying to my own post, so that the info is shared. Other people did the same in different topics regarding the water pump rebuild, but just FYI: - the ricambi tool is good and facilitates the process but, as I said, it is not required if you know what you are doing and applying the right force at the right place. The most important is to support the seal when inserting the new bearing/shaft as fatbillybob says - seal must be supported evenly on the metal part so that the bearing's shaft can go through it without breaking it. Remember, you don't do this, 100% of chances are that you will break it. I reccomend to buy 2-3 seals (given the price): I did not break mine when installing it first, but actually pushed the bearing out again to see if it worked well. For what is regarding the water pump from ricambi: I've tried with a 83mm o-ring / 2.5mm thick. Original is 84 / 3mm thick. It is better and, of course, pump fits like this. Unfortunately, when I insert the old pump body - I see that this last one is much more tight and seals better. So, to me, the ricambi's pump doesn't work and I've used my rebuilt pump.
