There is something strange happening at Honda. Even before Covid, their sales were down by 32% in Europe last year. They don't seem to offer cars attractive to the public, nor satisfying the EU regulations. Honda is late in introducing hybrid or electric cars in its range (in Europe at least), essential to avoid punitive legislation. Now they say they will stop production in Europe and close their factory in Swindon, UK. The most alarmists say that Honda may leave the European car market altogether.
They are ugly. Then again that's true for Toyota and KIA. Only in their upper brands (Acura, Lexus) is design pleasing to the eye again. Of course I'm biased by clean European lines. But it is something I've been thinking for a while: The new Civic is horribly looking. I had a CRX in the eighties and loved that car for its performance and looks but today's Civics are just bleh.
Not sure if Acura are imported in Europe, and I have seen only a few Infinity (they are going to leave the EU market anyway). Lexus does well; sales had progressed by 17% in 2019. They say you sell 1 Lexus for 10 Mercedes !
FIA only have themselves to blame. They wanted this ridiculous engine formula, under the illusion we would soon have audi, bmw, toyota and whoever else join the sport...It would bring tree hugger fans to the sport, make for superb racing and bring costs down, because only a few engines per season. 6 years on, the racing is ****, fans are still leaving, tree huggers still hate racing, Cosworth was priced out, Honda made a failed F1 return, blew over a billion and now licking their wounds. And there is no back up plan. F1 needs a dictator that puts the interest of the sport (money) and it's fans first. Pleasing motorsport hating tree huggers should be at the very bottom of their list.
I wouldn't doubt it if RBR said they are thinking about calling it a day on F1. RB certainly doesn't need F1 to sell a single can of their liquid diabetus, so what is in it for them other than a constant headache over engines?
With Mercedes potentially leaving, I can see them at least get those engines quite easy...if they can't get the Mercedes engine, they'll either have to crawl back to Renault (not such a bad engine right now but also not great) or....Ferrari (which red bull REALLY doesn't want).
That’s not entirely true. The manufacturers also wanted it, especially Renault, and it did bring Honda in. Also hybridization is the way to go. F1 was ahead of the curve. Sports cars are heavily into hybrids. Indy car, NASCAR, and IMSA are all heading down the hybrid / KERS route as well and WRC are looking at it. There wouldn’t be a penny from any mainstream OEM without some plan for electrification in the future. Without hybrids Honda would never have returned and Renault would have left at the end of the old regs. Like it or not, you are not going to escape some level of electrification if you want OEM money going forward.
I don't see what's wrong with a simple KERS unit like before (v8 era) bolted to an entertaining engine. But I also don't really see the need for OEM's to be in the sport. We don't see this tech back in road cars, as it's too complicated. Mercedes announced they are putting it in their next AMG cars, but it's quite simply a generator attached to a turbo. OEM's can come and go as they please, as F1 is nothing but a promotional side for them, it's not a core business. Mercedes and Renault both pushed for it. Ferrari didn't want it. Cosworth couldn't afford it. Honda underestimated it. If you look at the sheer cost, lack of entertainment, lack of adaptability (For road cars), I don't think anyone can claim that the current engine formula is a raging success. Leave this sort of stuff for prototype racing. F1 should focus back on being an entertainment. If road car relativity is F1's goal, why are they single seat, why do they have ridiculous wings, why are they open wheel...I could go on forever.
Toyota had a hybrid car on the street many years before F1 picked up on it. 1997 is when the Prius came out. F1 is about as exciting as a Prius is. Fans don't give a crap what engines the car is using or what tech they have. These racing roombas proved that perfectly. F1 needs to adopt simpler engines if they are serious about cutting costs (which they aren't).
Red Bull knew Honda could quit since August Honda made it clear to Red Bull as early as August that they were considering their involvement in Formula 1 beyond 2021. “In August we communicated our thoughts to Red Bull Racing and we determined to conclude participation at the end of September actually.” Hachigo stressed that the financial impacts of the global pandemic played no role in Honda’s decision. “It is not really for the consideration of short-term revenues and profits, but we want to go for the carbon neutrality for 2050, we want to have that target set up,” he said. “We want to focus engineering resources into that area, it is not really a profits consideration or Covid, it is an engineering resources, that it what it is mainly based on. “The [Honda] engineers working in F1 right now I want to make sure that all the technology they have fostered and cultivated themselves during F1 can be directed towards [achieving] carbon neutrality by 2050.
Good point on proto racing. Just a thought, the investment would be more applicable to Le Mans series cars, where speed and durability are most important features. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Its rather more complicated than that, these are the 2021 sporting regulations for power unit supply No power unit may be used in a given Championship season unless the Power Unit Manufacturer supplying such power unit accepts and adheres to the following conditions. Each of the Power Unit Manufacturers of an homologated power unit must: i) provide the FIA, before 15 May (or such other date as agreed in writing between all the Power Unit Manufacturers and the FIA) of the season preceding that in which such power units are to be supplied, with the list of teams (clearly identifying the appointed “works/factory” team, if any) to which a supply agreement has been concluded for the given Championship season; ii) if called upon to do so by the FIA before 1 June (or such other date as agreed in writing between all the Power Unit Manufacturers and the FIA) of the season preceding that in which such power units were to be supplied, supply at least a number of teams (“T”) equal to the following equation: T = (111 - A) / (B - C) 11-10 / 4-0 A = Total number of teams (including “works/factory” teams) having a supply agreement concluded for the given Championship season with a New Power Unit Manufacturer. - B = Total number of manufacturers of homologated Power Units for the given Championship season. - C = Total number of New Power Unit Manufacturers for the given Championship season. provided that if the result contains a fraction then the fraction shall count as a full team (e.g. 11 teams divided by 4 manufacturers = 2.75, each manufacturer must, if called upon to do so by the FIA, supply at least 3 teams). 1 This figure will be reviewed each year as the “total By my calculation that works out as 1 team given the above equation, the example given above of 3 teams does not reflect the result of the equation. So in fact Renault (or any other manufacturer) only needs to supply one team. Thats how i read it!! Best tony
An engine manufacturer is obliged to supply a team without an engine (providing they get paid, of course). If Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari all refuse to supply Red Bull, they'll quite literally throw all the names in a hat, and whichever name they draw, that'll be the engine they'll get.
F1 is a rules game and I cannot see the top engine manufacturers (3) deviating from the rule book especially when they can stick the boot into Red Bull. I am sure Ferrari would protest strongly if caught in that situation and possibly give them last years engine, i dont see anything where it says it has to be equal to the works team! The FIA formulae under appendix 4 would definately be contested. I doubt they would resort to a hat contest either, as SF and Mercedes currently supply 2 other teams (so far) it would fall to Renault, but as far as i can understand the wording, they dont have to (as of today)
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/124056/fia-can-compel-manufacturers-to-supply-teams You are right that it'll fall on renault, because they supply the fewest teams. However, I do think that if Mercedes leaves (if that rumour is true) and stays as engine supplier only, they'll quite happily supply Red Bull...
If I was Renault, I would refuse point blank to provide Red Bull and Apha Tauri with engines. After all the bad-mouthing and negative publicity Renault had to endure, I can't see why they should help Red Bull in any way. And if the FIA tries to force Renault to supply the 2 RB teams, they should follow Honda and leave. With 3 teams potentially out of F1, maybe the FIA would change its tune.
