My only question is: WHY? Roll the car at any speed and steering works period.
I bought a fiesta unit. the tube on top I know comes off, but I'm not sure what's under it. It look bulkier than the Chinese unit but hard tell, I may need to work some magic on it.....its due here Monday so we'll soon see. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I like the comparison test of car vs bike in a car mag I read a few years ago. Two top level racers on top level car and bike. Car won. Biker said, "I could have gone faster if it weren't for the gravel." The car driver said, "What gravel?"
For you DIY types. This thread is worth reading with lots of links. Toyota FRS Electric Power Steering in an A Body (pro-touring.com) Here is more in the Prius EPS conversion. Toyota Electric Power Steering (EPS) Conversion – The Ranger Station Increase Horsepower and Save Fuel with Electric Power Steering (hotrod.com)
I read through the first link and that is always my worst nightmare......hours turning to days trying to get the thing to respond to CAN messages when the whole setup would like 10 minutes with a spec sheet in hand. Fearing that outcome is what led me to just buy a control box on ebay where somebody already figured out the correct CAN info, so I just need to use it as is but it doesn't have a speed input, it just varies assist to be proportional to input effort so I'm not sure how nice will feel? If I'm unhappy with its performance I can pretty easily read the output from that unit and setup up my ECU to replace it, I already have an unused CAN line coiled above the fuse box waiting for just such an emergency. I suspect the steering unit is also outputting a steering angle signal which would also be nice to have for logging is nothing else, but I have plans for lauch&traction control, assuming an 800+hp running engine arrives so another reason to connect the ECU. The others look like they are running the units in fail-safe so it works as a simple fixed boost unit...which I guess isn't so bad, better than nothing for sure but doesn't like like a path to proper sportscar feeling steering and probably not as good as the EZ steer setup. The Chinese unit I was looking at is new so it would come with all the I/O specs to make setup simple...but it also comes Chinese quality I'm pretty sure I could buy just the Chinese control boxes which might be a path to making any OEM setup tunable. As for a "no cut" install I'm pretty sure it's possible but means putting the power unit up in the steering column itself just like a bunch of the OEMs do.....there is PROBABLY just enough space between the dash and firewall so instead cutting up car itself you'd be cutting up a steering column which is a bolt-on part. I'll look closer at this option once I have some parts in hand. The other no cut option would be to find a power rack that could be adapted...possible I think, ford has a few that look maybe workable maybe.
You do like like re-inventing the wheel don't you ? ... Just buy a Vauxhall/Opel Corsa unit complete with its ECU : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-CORSA-C-COMBO-TIGRA-FIXED-EPAS-ELECTRIC-POWER-STEERING-COLUMN-2000-2006/333733143814?epid=1834390442&hash=item4db40ba506:g:jQ8AAOSwEwdft5MB then add this : https://www.motorsport-tools.com/corsa-b-c-electric-power-steering-electronic-ecu-variable-speed-control-unit.html?SID=5mf7ckgsevvllrp0h7f0rorjd2 Or available even cheaper here : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Corsa-B-C-Kit-Electric-power-steering-controller-box-With-ECU-plug-EPAS-/142463712424 Info on the system here : http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/corsa-epas-power-steering-kit-car/ Once you've sussed it out and refined it, you'll have queue of people wanting to buy it off you, I suspect Gino will be at the front of the queue
Yes, also an option. I'm not sure the path of least resistance......once I have some parts in hand I'll pull the column and see what I'm dealing with exactly and if perhaps a different setup might make it easier. As for a que of people...I generally don't sell the stuff I design/build because they generally are built as concept prototypes meaning way to many hours of labor to make it worth my bother to repeat the exercise. If it works out in reality the way it work in my imagination and if there is any actual interest, both big ifs, I'll consider production options for a 1 time run or something like that but I can't imagine it ends up cheaper than the EZ steer setup once labor is in the mix....you know how I am about ridiculously labor intensive creations.
I hear you, with that being said, I dont consider any Caterham a road car, Its way more a race / track car that you can drive on the street, same Catagory as that killer Le Mans style single seater track car that you can drive on the road. I forgot its name.There are a bunch of them, and again, not at all in the same catagory as 308/328 or that Porsche. In todays game, the GT3 Rs, is as good as a road car you can get, which you can use on the racetrack, but then again, most Porsche sports cars are like that. Im considering some iteration of the 911, over all these years, there are so much to choose from, and so much more reliable than a Ferrari. Thank you
ok maybe a caterham isnt a fair comparisons. nothing wrong with the 308s, even in stock they are wonderful charismatic period gt cars, probably the most well rounded junior exotic of all of them. for the folks that want to sharping up the driving experience to hustle it around a little more, a quicker rack makes sense along with added neg camber and dial-in more caster in the set up. for all those aspects mention a power steering assist for speeds under 5mph makes sense since its a street car. oh another thing that always bother me is the steering column always feels like its going to bend or break off in my hand. i had and old flimsy esprit built like a toy but that column stouter with less flex than the 308. are you thinking, of a BAC mono mentioning that LM style single seater? There is a white one in your area that belongs to a friend of mine terrorizing the canyons. he actually hates the car and prefers his turbo'd elise or supercharged ariel atom for those roads. i got an invite to come drive it but havent taken him up on it, whatever the issue is with that car dosent matter... i think its sexier than hell. all the best
Hey there, and thank you for your excellent reply, I dont think its the BAC, I will have to research, I always see them advertised in the British car Mags, then I would love to get back to you!! Im do for another 100.00 Car / bike mags purchase from Barnes / Noble . Thank you,
yes they are from the uk, here is a link to see what a mono looks like... https://www.bac-mono.com/ he had the 2nd one imported to america, first one a demonstrator belonging to Shanu the importer of BAC in Temecula. looks like the price has doubled since? prices has exploded on everything.... craziness like the late 80's bubble
We finished the installation of the power steering kit and the quick ratio rack last night. HOLY MOLY! This is awesome! The steering effort at parking speeds is like two fingers. That reduces at speed but it still feels assisted at speed, but not too much. The process of turning lock to lock to park no longer feels like it's going to rip the steering column out of the dash. The quick ratio rack is sublime. The steering is incredibly direct. Lane changes are instant. Aaron
Well done Aaron !! Wish you'd done it years ago now ... ?? A lot of the rally boys in the UK and Ireland fit the system to their Mk2 Ford Escort rally cars. They run high offset 8" front wheel with slicks, and the Irish lanes can be very twisty, wet and slippery : Install here : Results here ... :
I bought it here. They drop shipped it from Europe in less than a week. https://www.cityracerllc.com/products/electric-power-steering-for-ferrari-308-328
Having spent the better part of five years working with the Toyota power steering unit (we used the Prius SKU), including reverse engineering the CAN spec and integrating the assembly & ECU into a custom mechatronics architecture for a low production run of vehicles -- it's not for the faint of heart. As you mentioned, relatively "easy" if you don't care about the speed sensitivity feature (i.e. full boost all the time) nor any potential safety conditions that could cause the steering feel to change during operation. But to get it working in a manner that is both safe AND preserves the right steering input across the entire speed range, it's a *lot* of work. That's of course not including the relatively "small" amount of work to cut holes in the dash and mount it inline w/the column The EZ Steer system seems to have already sorted that out by building a custom controller with the right signal conditioning for the speed input. Not to mention that it sounds like it's got a fairly decent track record with the fchat crowd. That's worth a lot. Curious on the Chinese unit specs -- how is it controlled? What are the inputs? Are they compatible with the signal from the 308 speed sensor? Is it configurable?
Yes - that was my view 3-4 years ago when I first considered, then disgarded the EZ steer idea because of that. BUT, my view of this has changed and I'm re-thinking it. My thought right now is tending toward the "what the heck difference does it make if there is a panel cut out where no one can see it? I totally agree that if the "weight" of the steering is not an issue for an owner, then certainly there is no reason to consider it. For me, from a functional point of view, I think it should have been on the car to begin with! So why not correct Ferrari's oversight? Don't get me wrong, haven't actually decided to do this...yet.
What we really need is an obliging owner who's fitted the system themselves (or had it fitted) to produce a decent quality video showing the differing amount of effort (between non EPAS and EPAS) that's required to turn the steering wheel at parking speeds, and at 30mph and 60mph ... A wide open space could/would be best for the making of said demonstration video ...
I did not get the full spec sheet from them, just what was on the site. Is says 0-20N input produces a 0-80N outputs, but it also has a pulsed input for speed and CAN. For me personally the exact spec of those inputs don't really matter because I have an ECU that will produce both to any spec I please. I'm sure it would work out fine but I'm going to start with the fiesta unit that also appears to have a steering angle sensor but the unit is a bit bulky so that might end up forcing a change.
@mk e really excited to hear how it progresses! What ECU are you using? Fully configurable motor outputs and speed/torque inputs, along w/tunable output based on f(speed, torque)....and with custom support for any CAN protocol/baud/broadcast rates? That's a pretty remarkable unit and curious what market it's directed towards. Unless of course, you're just planning to write the code yourself
Its an https://enginelab.net/ You don't write "code" but do write the logic yourself So create an item to read the CAN IDs of interest and assign them variable names Process the variables as you please. There is a library of available functions to accomplish most anything Out put the result back toe CAN, its reasonably straight forward to setup up: https://enginelab.net/documentation/#CAN_Packet I just love the thing, there is no compiling, you can change logic or values on the fly through the PC interface...the GUI lets you just right click and display whatever you please then its all logged and you can play it back and know what every value in the ECU was at any moment....its just nice for those of us that enjoy tinkering. I ordered a "hack box" for the fiesta controller from ebay so I don't need to reverse engineer EVERYTHING, and will use that to get things running with a CAN sniffer on the line to see what all is going on. Then I can configure the ECU to replace the hack box and have the tuning in my control......at least that's the plan. At this point I've mentally given up on a no cut install.....the only question is what is easiest to cut and I think the EZ steer path is probbly it. I could do something more discreet perhaps but it would be more work so.....