430 - F-1 leaks overnight? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

430 F-1 leaks overnight?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Bill ochrane, Jun 10, 2021.

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  1. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    No, I have no way of reading pressure.
     
  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,388
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    From what you are describing..your accumulator needs to be replaced as a first step. The pump should not be running that frequently.

    The purpose of the pump..and it's only purpose in the F1 system is to charge the accumulator. The system pressure is maintained by that pressure vessel. If you have a scan tool you can monitor pressure loss in real time. System pressure should be around 43bar at peak. Pump should kick on at 35bar (could be wrong on that but I think its around there) Accumulator charge time should be no more then 5-6 seconds.
     
  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    A launch x 431 pro will give you the pressures, it will also help you bleed the system.
     
  4. MelloF430

    MelloF430 Rookie

    Dec 13, 2017
    37
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Mello
    +1
     
  5. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    Following excellent advice from fellow forumers, I found that after opening the car door the pump runs the proper time (5-6 seconds). But when I turn the ignition key on (no start) and shift from N to 1, then 1 to R, and so on the pump runs every time I shift. AND, when the ignition is on with no start, and no shifts, the pump runs a few seconds about every 20-30 seconds until I turn the key off. I sent it to the shop to replace the accumulator and bleed via computer/scan tool. THANKS ALL.
     
  6. craze

    craze Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2021
    1,038
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Michael
    And its better now?
     
  7. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    I haven't gotten it back from the shop but will report ASAP.
     
  8. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    Update: I bought an accumulator and sent it with the car to a shop in Houston. They replaced the accumulator and say it still loses pressure. Thoughts?
     
  9. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,692
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Have shop remove actuator.check screws on actuator..bleed actuator Using those screws to bypass fluid back to reservoir and retighten screws ..



    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  10. fernanjos!

    fernanjos! Rookie

    May 6, 2021
    26
    Full Name:
    Jose Fernandez
    I can see various mistakes, F1 gear doesn't use ATF, it uses hydraulic fluid. Using ATF you're damaging the system even more. You say you overfilled the system, you shouldn't do that.

    Clearly your acumulator has failed and it need to be replaced for a new one (expensive) or it needs to be rebuild, (cheaper and recommended) Contact a shop that can rebuild your system and you'll save a lot of headaches with your car.
     
  11. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 24, 2012
    2,020
    UK
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    Robin
    OK, so F1 hydraulic fluid (SHell Donax) is chemically very similar to ATF; many people use ATF instead of the Ferrari specified fluid.

    The accumulator is just a bottle with a rubber bladder inside it, and a nitrogen charge on the other side. This acts to smooth out pressure fluctuations in the system by acting like a pressure buffer and giving a store of fluid charge so that the pump doesn't have to run all the time (remember that liquids are effectivly incompressible, whereas gases are compressible). If the OP is loosing pressure overnight, either its leaking out of the closed system (which would be fairly obvious), or its bleeding across one of the high/low pressure interfaces inside the system - the accumulator is not one of these.
     
  12. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,692
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    From the long chain here it seems the symptoms changed and now we are faced with pressure is good and steady if he doesn't change gears but once he starts to change gears he loses pressures quickly - hence my suggestion above about screws
     
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  13. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    Apr 24, 2012
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    Robin
    100% agree; if those screws are at an HP / LP interface internal to the F1 system, then this is a top possibility.
     
  14. fernanjos!

    fernanjos! Rookie

    May 6, 2021
    26
    Full Name:
    Jose Fernandez
    It's true, hydraulic oil and ATF are similar, like male and female both are human beings.
     
  15. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,692
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    Not sure what you are trying to say

    The factory fill is spriax s4 ATF for the f1 system

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  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Makes me wonder if it still has air in system
     
  17. fernanjos!

    fernanjos! Rookie

    May 6, 2021
    26
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    Jose Fernandez
    Both are similar but not the same, the properties of both are different. ATF fluid eats the seals inside the unit.
     
  18. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,692
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    So are you saying the OE product is eating the seals ? I find tat hard to believe that Ferrari would do that
     
  19. fernanjos!

    fernanjos! Rookie

    May 6, 2021
    26
    Full Name:
    Jose Fernandez
    I'm saying check the label in the engine compartment to see the fluids used in a Ferrari and you'll see for your self.
     
  20. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,692
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    Again that is what the labels says ...

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  21. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,388
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    When you replace the accumulator you will introduce air into the power unit. This needs to be bled out. Is the shop familiar with how to do this? There is a valve on the power unit that needs to be opened and shut while the scan tool activates the pump. At minimum they should run an extended bleed procedure for the release bearing also.
     
  22. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    Update. Now the shop is going to replace the e-dif control valve. Whatever that is?
     
  23. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    Apr 24, 2012
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    Robin
    Posted in error.
     
  24. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,388
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    What was thier reasoning for replacing the e-diff solenoid? The e-diff although is does run off of the F1 power unit, it is a separately controlled component apart from the actual shift control side.

    If you have replaced the accumulator and still the pump is running too frequently..I would have them do a complete bleed on the system before replacing anything more. Bleed the power unit, actuator, and release bearing in that order. You must be sure the air is completely out of the system..only then will you know if you need to dig further.

    If it continues yes to loose pressure after words.. you may have an internal leak in the actuator..
     
  25. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,692
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    The person trying to change ediff solenoid should show you the leak rate bring high on a diag tool ..very easy diag with that parameter

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