Just took my car to a new highly recommended Indy shop and was surprised with a long list of repairs. I've been meticulous about things getting fixed specially preventive maintenance and was highly disappointed that the shop where I used to take the car didn't bring to my attention all the things needed and they have accumulated tremendously. CV joint leaking, control arm play, leaking cam seal, transmission mount needs replacement (I specifically had asked the prior shop to replace this and said it was ok). So now looking at $8k bill. Ufffff.
8k doesn't seem like a lot for a bunch of deferred maintenance repairs on a 20 year old Ferrari. I guess it's just that they are all hitting at once kind of makes you mad. What hurts is when you have a 5K bill on a 2012 Mercedes with only 70k miles for engine and transmission mounts and being told that's normal.... My whole attitude about car repairs changed with that one...
Let another shop look at the car. CV joint leak? Maybe a torn boot? Cam seal leak, very common and probably just a slight weep at the end. Control arm play? How much. Trans mount? How far gone is it. None of that work is difficult.
Tell me about it. I had a 2013 GL450 at just over 100k miles the bills came due. Got to the point it almost made more sense to buy new. I truly think I would spend more maintaining a 8+ year old MB than my F430. I feel like at some point you'd address everything on the Ferrari because at the end of the day it's a "race car" with fewer parts, whereas the MB would continue to have issues. Agree that the work isn't very difficult if you have a shop or at least a lift. As reference, a reputable Indy shop in Baton Rouge charged me $1616 for both CV boots. Also found the slight "weep", and while I can't find the quote I want to say it was less than $2k. Upon further research I decided it wasn't worth the fix since it seems to be a reoccurring issue on our cars and some folks say the weep returns shortly after addressing it. Don't know about the other items. I can see where it's an $8k bill at a dealer, but I'd imagine you can maybe get it done for $5-6k if you look around. Then again I noticed your in LA, and a 20% high COL area premium wouldn't surprise me.
Seems extremely steep if it's just the parts listed. New axle (can just replace the boot if the leak is small, I find it easier to do the whole axle) is $375. New tranny mount is $200. "Cam seal" is almost always valve cover gaskets leaking right near the cam seals. Valve cover gaskets are $50/ea and you probably only need 1. Control arm play = need new flamblocs. You can go with the super fancy upgraded ones made by Sky Hye here on FChat, or just go with Energy Suspension ones on RockAuto for $28/ea for upper and $22/ea for lower. For purposes of this estimate, let's assume you need to replace 4 of the 16 flamblocs. $100 total. So parts cost is $725. Labor for most of these things is not that much. Cam cover maybe 2 hours (book time is 36 minutes), transmission mount 2 hours, axle 3 hours, control arms 3 hours. By my rough math, you're looking at $725 in parts and 10 hours of labor. Even at $120/hr, that's under $2000. Where is the rest of the money going? That is highway robbery. Even if you went the expensive, low effort way and replaced both axles with OEM ($375/ea), they charged you almost $900 in parts markup and labor on what is, at most a 3 hour job.
Cam seal is not valve cover gasket. Replacing the seals (you would do both seals on the one side, and if both sides are leaking then all four seals) would require removal of timing belts, changing the seals and retiming the engine, which also requires replacing of the valve cover gaskets. That job is not done for 3 hours. The transmission mount is the very hard to do upper mount of the gearbox. You cannot see the mount from above because it is buried under all that other stuff which has to be removed before you can get your hands on the mount. Its replacement requires a very expensive specific tool. That job too is not a 2 hours job. As for suspension bushings, that is a $2,000 job for a 308. I don't know if it is less for a 360. I can see $8K from a very high end shop or a dealer. Shop around and you may be able to do it for less. Contact Plugzit.
The funny part of these crazy Mercedes service costs is that I replaced my Mini Cooper JCW with the Mercedes because I was disgusted that a timing chain would go at 60k (There was a class action lawsuit), so I bought a Mercedes for the "reliability". It has been anything but....
Need to specify big difference between cam seal and cam cover seal. Diy this is peanuts. none of this would scare me in my shop at home…, Except if you must remove cams.
There is a reason why I do not, have not, and will not own any Mercedes. In addition to the maintenance costs, there is no attraction in marque for me. I feel the same way about Audi. I am just about to push my daughter's Audi A3 off a cliff.
Well aware. Often the valve cover gasket leaks right by the cam seal and it is misdiagnosed. Yes, if it is truly the cam seal and the leak is bad enough, you have to remove belts and it becomes a huge PITA. Otherwise, if it is just minor weeping, it can wait until next belt service if that is in the next 6-12 months. Trans mount can be done with almost any smaller sized off-the-shelf bushing press tool - Hill makes one for <$200, which I would not say is "super expensive". You can access the bushing in an hour to an hour and a half if you have done it before. 360/F430 have 16 flamblocs (8 upper and 8 lower). Unless the car has been very poorly maintained, it's unlikely that all would be bad at the same time, hence the having to replace 4 I estimated. If you are using OEM parts and replacing all 16, it would be expensive. Probably a good bit more than $2k. Point here is that you can certainly take it to a dealer, have them use expensive OEM parts and pay $8k for this. But a good indy could do it for well under half (even if it is cam seals and not valve cover gaskets).
Yes. It's not just F-car owners though. See the post above about paying $5k for engine and tranny mounts on a Mercedes. Part of it is paying dealer markup on labor and parts. I feel bad for folks who buy entry level luxury cars and don't know better than to service it at the dealership. So you'll have someone with an A4, 330i, or worse (something like a base Ghibli) who spends well over $1k/mo all-in to drive what is frankly a pretty boring/bad car. I daily drive an Audi RS4 that would be financially ruinous to service at the dealership. Just this year, I did a carbon cleaning, new fuel injectors and spark plugs, replaced the entire PCV system, new pads and rotors all around, and put in 2 new axles for under $3k in parts cost. Dealership wanted just over $10k for the same work. Obviously not everyone has the time / desire / ability to DIY, but it's hard to stomach the costs when you know you could do it on a Saturday morning.
Some of these stories resemble the $10 BMW I had. 2009 BMW 330i manual transmission and M package, fully loaded. The dealership wanted $16K to replace the turbos and change the leaking oil pan gasket. The owners were going to give the car to charity but I offered them $10 just so they would be done with it, which they accepted. Took me a couple months and a few more fixes than just those two (walnut blast intake, new clutch and few other items). Cost me about $5,500 but I had a really nice driver with 130K plus miles on it that I sold for a small profit after driving it for a year. Fun times.
You will love this, on my wife's GL550 the dealer wanted $15k to replace the camshaft sensors. They then broke a part resulting in $28k in damages and the insurance came in and totaled the car.
Not when you have a quality Indy shop. The one I went to did not live up to his name, so he lost a client.
I hear you man. I'm about to sell this thing and buy something lame. I just want something reliable at this point
I agree on the quote being a rip-off. None of those parts are expensive or hard to replace. A little time in the garage will save you about 7k. DIY everything.
Took the wifes 2012 A4 (stick..of course) into the speakership to get an oil change and quote for thermostat replacement. I. ****. You. Not.... $325 for oil change and "diagnosis". The quote for the thermostat replacement.. $1500. The quote to replace the vacuum pump that they saw some "oil weeping" or "oil leakage"... $1000. Like really? I bought OEM parts online to replace the thermostat and they were $70. The vacuum pump wasn't leaking oil.. Be careful out there. They will take you for a fool if they let you. It's bad out there with the high prices.. I'll have the thermostat replaced this weekend or next. Should take 3 or 4 hours max.
By comparison, for another point of context -- I spent -- no exageration -- more on fixing up (and to be fair, significantly upgrading) my 360 than it cost me to buy it. which is a good reminder i need to revisit and finish my 360 build thread. I got about halfway through. But here's a start that chronicles at least $15k in initial deferred maintenance alone... https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/there-are-many-build-threads-this-one-is-mine-tubi-style-novitec-kw-and-mase-oh-my.632362/ I'm only at 60% of the acquisition costs on fixing up the f430.. but we're still a ways from the finish line. Speaking of, probably should start a build thread on that as well!
You are correct. 335. Old age……. A couple pics of the completed project. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
