"Open title" - any advice?

If it was a few weeks old or maybe even a few months I wouldn't be so worried but 2013? That might raise some red flags at the DMV when you register it so I'd be very careful. Also, you might want to check with the DMV if any other fees are owed. Normally you have to register an in state purchase within 5 days (I think it's 5 days). So if this car hasn't been registered since 2013 and a non-op permit hasn't been filed, that might add up to some serious fees.

 

One word: RUN!

 

Absolutely check with the DMV. I don't know about CA, but in most states only the owner listed on the front of the title can legally sell a vehicle. I suspect the seller never registered it in order to avoid the sales tax, and is now flipping the car.

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Run far run fast. Plenty of other ones available without the shady title.

 

That's exactly what this is.
ebay was rife with those ("curbstoners") a few years ago. Dealt with one who specialized in Alfa Romeo both as a buyer, and previously as a seller under two userenames (both trace back to the same email) to hide what he was doing. Got him kicked-off of ebay, at least for a while.

 

Seems a few things are certainly happening. The biggest red flag is that the typical “open” title, you’d at least have the last owner (seller) and then a BLANK spot for the buyer (not filled in).
So this gentleman essentially “owns” a car without his name attached to it all (so, we’re beyond him just trying to avoid paying sales tax/reg) I’d be very leery of his ownership even being legal at the moment.

Maybe post the VIN. I wonder if someone on here may recognize the situation.

 

I would have the seller solve the open title Problem it maybe an issue or may not be but the seller will have to solve it
as in most states it would not be legal to sell a car with an open title as that means the past owner (s) did not pay sales
tax on it .. ..simple for the seller to solve it

 

Some states have limits on the number of title transactions an individual can file per year. Open title is a way for low scale adhoc car lots to operate under the radar.

 

Depends on the state here in NY the title will be automatically voided if both spots are signed and the person who selling the car isn’t the owner. Is the seller a dealer because there should be a section where the title can be transferred over to a dealer ship. If it’s not then the person need to go through a title company and get a title for it which is expensive and a long process.


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Run Forrest, Run!

 

I don't buy cars with open titles. If a seller is trying to sell a car without his or her name on the title, you have no proof that he's the legal owner.

 

Frankly, many vintage Ferraris have an open title. Sales tax on a seven figure car that doesn't get driven gets expensive.

From what I've been told, all you need is an ironclad bill of sale.

 

Four solutions:

1. Have the seller request a “title only” from their DMV that shows their name as the owner then make the sale. States often allow this to hold/prove ownership so long as the car isn’t registered. They typically don’t charge sales tax unless the car is registered anyhow and will mark the title “sales tax unpaid” so the seller would be out nothing and you’d register the car and pay appropriate tax at that time. This is particularly common with collector vehicles.

2. Get a title bond which will guarantee the title. It’s relatively inexpensive and ties to the car only a couple of years before the title is “clear” and in your name alone. If something goes sideways you’re covered by the bond.

3. Negotiate an acceptable discount for the baggage and purchase it anyhow then solve the issue on your own.

4. Walk.

 

So I'm in the business... And deal with this frequently.

It's either because they were flipping the car... And are not a licensed dealer... Or they were skipping paying tax. 90% of the time they didn't want to pay the tax.

If the seller section is filled out and the buyer is blank and you can write your name in is the only possible scenerio for you to contemplate.

If the seller is filled out and the buyer is filled out and it's someone else. The title is a paperweight. You can't and should not do anything. The seller needs to "perfect" the title. If you buy it there is next to nothing you can do with it in this scenario. So walk from this deal until.they correct it. If the previous buyer is dead... You got a REAL problem.

If the buyer section was left blank you have some risk you can mitigate. You need to pull carfax which will show or should show the most recent title number and compare that to the title. If that matches... The next thing is to call or go to the DMV or 3rd party DMV and verify that that title number is current and is transferable without any additional late fees like flat plane Eddie said.

If you do all of this you should be 99% ok.

Also... As a crappy thing to say if you are buying something and they say it's been serviced and babied and blah blah blah but have no paperwork but alleged mechanic says it's the nicest one they have seen etc... And they have a. Open title... Just know that there is a 75% chance you are getting put together... And you probably shouldn't believe anything they told you.

It doesn't mean the car is bad. It just means... Assume the seller is lying about everything and verify everything yourself... Verify title number etc... Verify it can be transfer verify the condition via PPI. Don't trust what they said only what can be proven.

 

ALWAYS BUY THE SELLER!!

 

I did some Googling. It isn't an "open title" at all...what he's attempting to do is called title jumping, and it is a felony in all 50 states. It's when you buy a car and then attempt to sell it to another buyer without registering and titling it in your name first. An open title is when the seller signs the back of the title document but leaves the buyer section blank, thus "open". I'm pretty sure that's how cars are typically sold on consignment. The consignor hands the car and the title to the consignee dealer, who in turn has the next buyer fill out the buyer section when the dealer sells the car. You stated that the seller and buyer sections were both filled out, but neither one is the current seller. That means that the buyer shown in the buyer section jumped the title, and in so doing committed a felony, when he sold it to the guy in FL. The guy in FL also did not record the title transfer when he got the title, so he will be committing a felony when (if) he sells the car to someone else. Presumably the CA owner listed in the Autocheck report is the legal owner, and the only one who has the right to sell the car. The CA DMV can confirm the last registered owner.

And by the way, if the FL seller's name is nowhere on the title, how do you even know he owns it? It could be stolen for all you know.

 

Above posts are covering it, but SOMEONE owes SOME STATE the taxes on the sale, and on Ferraris that's significant.

Cheating on taxes, like death, just isn't really possible.

I have one instance, where the vehicle was still on the MSO, now that was a little different, as returning the documents to the dealer, they made it look like I had bought a "Brand new" but unused vehicle (72 miles showing on a Ducati)...but MAINLY the purchase price was revised, from the original $18,500 MSRP, down to a depreciated value, say..........$9.500. ...based solely on elapsed time and also due to Bank Deposit Reporting requirements.

This did let the seller off the hook, he obviously had not driven it anywhere (intended it to ship to Europe)....but as you see, he never paid taxes on the original $18,500.

Dangerous games, and as noted an OPEN title is just half executed, and that bit John O'Quinn hard in the azz.
He could not feel it as he was dead..........

So, eventually you end up thru the glass with the County Clerk...she looks at me quizzically, and says:
"This is a brand new bike, but it's three years old?"

"Yes , ma 'am...the damn thing was in a big box, but the Instructions were all in Italian, I had to learn the language, to build it......"

*silence*

*Smile*

Stamping of papers and tag issuance, with a Year decal.
And I wrote a check, for the tax,.

 

A lot of great info in this thread, and i agree with the bottom line: run.

The guy wasn't transparent to begin with, it's out of state, and when it becomes a headache, you'll be telling yourself that you should've known better.

I had a very minor title issue when I bought a CA trade in TN earlier this year and it took 5 months of the dealer calling weekly to get resolved. Not worth it.

 

The story of the Ingrid Bergman Rossolini spider has a Title issue in it!
A teenager bought the car, some hoodlums stole it, and he lost it, over lack of clear title..in Italy

Consider THAT!
There's a video about it, imagine 17 and driving Ingrid Bergman's old V12.

Back on point, the ISSUE is crossing State Lines, and the license plates.

A Texas Title (and I'm sure this is not rare) can be negotiated THREE times, in slots/boxes on the obverse side, AS LONG AS it's all in the same State.

As Ferraris tend to migrate over a longer range, in that case for YOU to pay Tax and Title at the County Tax Assessor's window, you have to SURRENDER the now voided out of state Title, and they print you a new one and issue metal tags, on the spot.

 

If you LOVE the car, they knock $10K off the ask, and you get a Title Service to BOND the new Title, go for it.

But as one post noted....with a Ferrari you are buying the seller, as well as the vehicle.
So, your seller is a small two bit car lot, a criminal, a tax cheat, or some Wise Ass that thinks he can cheat Death, and taxes!!!!

A), B), or C) or D) All of the Above!!!!


Get the Bonded Title, change the oil and get fresh tires, and for me, I would need to take a shower....

 

HAHAHA. Buy the seller!!