Please explain or help me understand

The best person to buy a car like a 308 from is an owner who does his own maintenance. You don't find many of them on BaT or the other sites because someone buys them before they ever get there. I just did what I consider a major service on mine. New water pump, belts, fuel hoses, thermostat, all 40mm water hoses and clamps, transaxle output shaft seals, CV joint boots, lower timing case outer bearings, cleaned carbs, removed the insulation from the airbox, re-plated all the hardware. I spent $1050 on all the parts (bought shift shaft seals but the car doesn't need them yet). I imagine the labor for the service I performed will be well over $15,000 at a reputable shop. This winter all four corners get new bushings, re-plating, shocks, rebuilt brakes, and a new steering rack. How many BaT warriors have this done to them?

 

I have not seen that at all on BaT or any of the other listing sites for that matter. Would be nice to have that opportunity as a buyer. Everything I see is either private seller with maintenance done at a foreign car shop, or dealers. Many dealers are flipping a car and have little/no records or information. They generally clean up the car and do some sort of service, then mark it way up and put it on sale. Some of these cars are worth consideration at a lower price, but many have a dubious past or are a mystery.

 

Watch Jack, on @number27vids (YOU TUBE ) hes a UK DIY er, who bought a 79 308. sight unseen from auction, the car needed a lot of work, including a set of heads, he did a great job of getting it up to snuff. If he took it to a shop for the major repairs, the cost would have been astronomical . Buy the best 328 that you can, once the bubble bursts, and spend what you can to get it to where you want it.

Thank you

 

In our local group of 308 owners most are at least to some degree DIY'ers and we all drive the cars regularly. None of us have low miles and none of them are for sale nor do any of us have plans to sell anytime in the foreseeable future. So, good cars are out there, they just aren't on the auction sites.

 

I'm very pleased to hear you say this, as I bought my 308 back 18 years ago -specifically- to serve as my DIY hobby car.

In spite of my personal history of wrenching on Italian cars continuously since the late 1970's, I've had several folks tell me that I have 'ruined' the resale value of my car because I have not had any work done whatsoever at a 'proper' Ferrari-qualified shop. A perspective which I've never fully understood.

DM

 

lol, ********.

 

I think it makes good sense to document what you do to your car but the real "proof is in the pudding"

There are three types of Ferrari buyers:
- those who either know what they are talking about and know the cars,
- those who seek people who know what they are talking about and know the cars,
- everyone else.

The folks in the "everyone else" category usually take their 308s to dealers expecting a factory trained technician with 40 years of experience will work on their Ferrari. They want the service record genie to blow some smoke on their new investment. But think about it. That would mean a Technician, factory trained in 1978 to work on 308s, would be between 63 and 68 years of age. I don't know about you but I haven't been employed for my 46 year career doing what I was the first couple of years I had a job; and I doubt very many others do either.

So let the "service history" junkies search and buy cars on the basis of service records while the rest of us consider the condition of the car and its subsystems as our buying criteria. I guarantee you I know which type of buyer will enjoy his car the most.

 

Or you can buy an ok car and perform all that by yourself. It’s impossible to pretend a user that take care of his car in such a way to sell it at a lower price, there’s love and attachment into it.

 

https://www.justred.com/buy/328-gts/zffxa20a4g0063727


this is a beautiful car.

 

https://www.justred.com/buy/308-gtsi/zffua13a7f0054897

This seems like a great deal.
It may be Sold

 

Absolutely agree. As long as there are no "mission critical" issues with the car, they can usually all be put right.

 

(Aside) perhaps I am one of the "Lucky few" but the tech working on my two 328 is 63 (two years older than yours truly) and has been factory trained in 1982; has been working in the official network from 1980 'till 2012, and then as an independant. Was already factory trained and experienced on 308s when the 328 hit the market. He is still overseeing the job done on my cars by his daughter; sometimes still doing it himself.

And, about the cars, to sum-it up the french market situation, generalising slightly: the best cars change hands/owners without been advertised, although you might be lucky with an add sometimes.

Rgds

 

I can believe it and have yet to run into that situation. I haven't even come across any for sale within 3 hours of me, advertised or not.

Everything has been through ads with cars 6+ hours away. Dealer cars seem to be the worst, with poor/no records and many owners. Probably not worth my time. I am finding some 2-3 owner cars through private-seller ads but not all sellers are on the ball with records and information.

I am starting to think that the previous 2-owner car I ran into with a responsive seller is probably worth the extra money just because all the information was available and forthcoming. That certainly counts for something.

 

Have you found your local Ferrari mechanic yet, the independent that everyone takes their car to? If not, you need to start there. -That- guy is going to know who has what coming up for sale, and can make the connection that gets you your car. BUT -- you need to be serious, and you need to take the word of that guy that it's a good car. If you try to slow roll and make a bunch of demands on the seller, or suggest that the mechanic isn't competent, you'll not be happy with the reputation you pick up.

You should also hook up with the local Italian enthusiast club. Once again, people who personally know and like you will give you a heads up on a good car long before it's public knowledge.

 

I’ll likely be the only Ferrari owner in the county when I get one, and for that matter, the only one doing maintenance. I may also be the only Italian too! Living rural has many advantages but ready access to the Ferrari crowd isn’t one of them. Closest cities that might have something will be Richmond or DC so I’ll start asking around.

 

There is a currently major backswing occurring against the technology of new cars. Nostalgia for “analog” cars is moving up the financial food chain.

There may be a dip, but based on lineage, rarity and styling, it may be that the 308 will be a $200,000 car and the 328 will be a $175,000 car if the interest in antique automobiles continues. They are currently off the radar for Ferrari collectors but there is an analog uniqueness to them that will be attractive. In the recent past, the only people who were interested in them were the people who could barely afford them.

Regarding the process of finding cars, I bought my 308 in 2013. At that time, there was no BaT or much other online action. The closest was Craigslist. Auction houses wouldn’t touch 3x8 because of their low value. Basically 3x8 sales were word-of-mouth and, indeed, I went through a broker to find my car. I probably paid 20% more than the 2013 Hagerty prices.

I don’t understand why people complain about the high prices that 3x8s are selling for on BaT. If there is sell-through, that establishes the value in the marketplace.

 

The only people complaining are those who haven't yet bought theirs.

 

Funny - I am an owner who does his own maintenance yet I do not prefer buying an unknown car from an unknown (to me)owner who did his own maintenance. I know too many people who do their own poor work so IMO, A DIY-owned car does not necessarily have anything to do with 'quality" work.

Personally, I would prefer buying a car with a history of work done at a shop that's been in business for a while. I suppose that means that if I was selling my '89 328 and there was an '89 328 with a shop-maintenance history, I'd advise a buyer to purchase the shop-maintained one!

Go figure...

Of course, the other issue with DIY for me is the question: "How do I know that you did the work that you claim you did?"

Yeah...it's a conundrum!

 

At least so far, I am getting to know the sellers pretty well so there is some trust built up, and it's easy to verify most of their maintenance by parts receipts and inspection. Can't always prove they put the parts on the car but so far I haven't doubted what I have been told.

 

My main beef with BaT lately is that the condition of the car is being overvalued, compared to market comps. Whatever it is about that audience, they love to pump up the prices beyond what they would pay through other outlets. Maybe they are just willing to go higher to get a car through that venue for some reason.

In contrast, there were two 328s recently auctioned on Cars&Bids (Doug Demuro's new auction site) and both failed to meet reserve. The bids stopped at a reasonable point, I think because the buyers knew what they were doing and realized the cars were not worth more. Both cars would have made sense at lower price points as drivers with a to-do list of fixups.

 

I'd like to be able to totally agree but I am aware of a guy who had all the parts receipts for his own work plus statements on what he did on his Porsche 911 and (per his brother who I worked with) all of the receipts for parts/work he did were fabricated by him on his printer. I'd LIKE to think that such things are very unusual...

I've only had one experience buying a vehicle that I didn't personally examine first and it was, shall we say, not entirely successful. I bought it from a well known dealer in such vehicles located several (US) states away - about 1200 miles. It sounded great on the phone but when delivered, I found serious safety as well as functional issues. It basically took me a couple of months to put the vehicle in condition to safely drive on the road...after the seller had assured me over the phone, "If you want to pick it up in person, you can drive it out of here across the country with no worries!" I should have done that but work at the time made that impossible. If I had, I would never have purchased it once I had inspected it. It looked great but was functionally a mess. Think of buying a flawless-looking 3x8 that the engine won't start initially, when it finally does after working on it for a couple of days, it blows clouds of oil smoke, has two broken shock absorbers, no brake fluid, rusty antifreeze, etc and you get the idea...

Sorry for the rant...

 

What complicates this all every 40 year old car is in a different condition with different problems and strengths. No two cars can be directly compared. Probably value of a particular car can only be estimated at plus or minus 10%. Maybe the percentage range is even greater. Buyers are different too with differences in perception of value. Everyone will respond differently to a kinked front hood or missing maintenance records.

Often the advice is to buy the best car you can afford which, for a rare car like the 3x8, means buy the best car you can find.

It would be interesting to drive the same car to different shops to see the difference in PPI reports and repair cost estimates.

 

this is correct

 

this is correct.

the car the OP is looking for will not likely be advertised.

you know what you want but you are not looking in the right places.

 

for the most part, you cannot pay too much (just too early)