Maranellos are disappearing

I've owned a 6-sp 456M. Now I have a 575 with F1. The 6-sp experience is delightful but I really don't see it as supporting a 4X+ multiplier. Sure it's nice but ~$300k nice?? Nah. Not even sure if the 6-sp experience is worth the cost of conversion of a F1 car. Do all these folks really think a F1 is that trash an experience in driving the car? I surely don't but perhaps I've just had experience with sequential trannies in race cars. It's faster than I can do it and I'm no rookie. Pretty good dancing feet down in the pedal well with heel/toe and double clutching. And let's not forget that the 6-sp is really a 5-sp for the first 10 minutes or so as 2nd gear really doesn't play for a while. Those gear boxed have their own set of quirks....

I'd really be interested in hearing why folks think the F1 box is so undesirable.

 

I blame Jeremy Clarkson

 

It isn't and it wasn't when they were new which is why most buyers opted for them - even when they were initially something like a $10k option.

 

I'd really be interested in hearing why folks think the F1 box is so undesirable.[/QUOTE]

There are several guys here that during covid that picked up 575 F1's under $80 (a few guys did amazingly well much lower) and those guys are definitely "winning".

 

There are several guys here that during covid that picked up 575 F1's under $80 (a few guys did amazingly well much lower) and those guys are definitely "winning".[/QUOTE]
And that makes the multiplier more like 5.3. Or a price adder of ~$350k to get the 6-sp. Those who speculated on the 6-sp some time ago are definitely winning with this kind of value appreciation but it just leaves me shaking my head.

 

We'll wait and see if somebody is actually willing to pay that price, the last manual 575 which sold I believe was around $250k?

What I think is also going on with sellers trying to take advantage of the market, is them asking an absurd price for a car, not actually expecting anyone to offer that, but just to find one person who would low ball them, not recognizing the price is so high that even a low ball offer is a top end price.
Is there an actual phrase for this type of practice?

 

Its a different driving experience, they both have their pros and cons. I like F1 and Egear in the sense that it is like a manual where you lift off and you're still in a gear and get compression braking. Also that when you take off you still need to understand how the clutch is working. I enjoy F1 when you are on a twisty road and can really focus on steering, hard into the corner, bang down the down shifts, out of corner, hard on gas and upshift. Around town though the F1 can be a bit cumbersome. Also if you're like TAZ and maintain your F1 religiously then you're ok but most people didnt. When the F1 pump goes, or a hose, or a sensor it leaves you on the side of the road. Plus the clutch modulation is not as precise as a manual so you tend to go through clutches quicker. Again depends on the cars history, the roads you drive etc. F1 likes to be driven harder, seems to work better when you are more on it. Given the choice I would choose manual each time, but I also wouldn't pay 3x the price unless I had money to burn.

 

I had an F1 612 which I turned into a manual 612. Reasons below:

- Poor clutch modulation, especially at low speed.
- inability to decouple throttle position from clutch position (exacerbating the above).
- downshifts lovely and crisp, but upshifts were ponderous (at least they are perceived that way).
- I imagine the technology seemed good in the day, and it was certainly pushed hard by the Ferrari PR team, but compared to a modern DCT in a Golf hatchback, the old automated manual is clearly slow and dim-witted.

Now, as these cars get older, you’re not really looking for the absolute peak in performance, so you could argue that the F1 has more character compared with a modern DCT, but then the same argument can be extended (further) to the gated experience. It’s about interaction at all speeds.

In a car that’s meant to be about providing a captivating experience, then it’s a dangerous game to take away layers of engagement from the driver. If you’re going to do that though, you need to be damn sure the automated system that you’re putting in place of the driver is comprehensively better. In the case of the F1 system, that’s just not the case.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

I agree with you Rolf. The value or rarity of some of these cars reminds me of a scene from the movie Wall Street. Michael Douglas talks about perception and the value of the artwork on his wall. "When the illusion becomes reality the more they want it." In the case of the 550 Maranello, while not as rare as the gated 575, its relatively rare as well. With only 3000 built over a 6 year period that's 500/year worldwide. Of those 500 approximately 150-200/year sent to the United States. IMHO that's pretty rare. And as you said they just happen to be fantastic "wonderful" cars to own and drive. If history repeats itself with this Brand, the 550 will ultimately continue to rise in value over the years.

 

Thanks for these comments, Robin. They are the kind of experiential insights I was hoping people would share.

 

In terms of multiplier: when my gated 575, which has just over 30k miles, FHP, was in for service this summer, my dealer had a client ask them to approach me with a bid for £180k ($250k, €215k). I asked what the equivalent sale price for a F1 would be and the reply was around £70 to £80k. So more or less a 2.5 x multiplier on that basis.

 

I believe you and that delta seems bananas

 

While 2.5X sounds rational compared to 4X+, it still seems a mite crazy. It's also better substantiated by the offers you received whereas the higher multiple just seems (to put it politely) aspirational.

 

I appreciate the conversation about the values of the 550. That said, what kind advice would you give me, as i am curious about how to value my 550, i am not entirely sure if i truly want to sell it or not just yet, however after 7 years (second owner) I am considering it. now empty nesters, we are looking to downsize and move into a smaller home (with less garage space)... Is there some variables i should consider as i try to assess? I see the dupont, and hemmings, however those cars are all over the world (and i think some of them are listed for a long time).. Appreciate any tips or advice.
The car: 1998 550, Grigio, Black, ZERO cosmetic flaws, original dashboard with almost no shrinkage, seat bolsters are "as new", fresh major, no outstanding service issues, except need to get the 575 engine mounts. milage is 3800 miles. and i have original black shedoni luggage.
Thanks everyone.. sadly, i have never sold any of my cars, so total rookie on the topic.

 

The level of research I did on the US delivered 550's and then I also considered 575's was exhaustive.

This thread I created discussing BaT and other general market transactions was/is a lot of fun.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/market-prices-575-manual-vs-575-f1-conversion-costs-vs-550.629834/page-18

I'll likely add the 575 and 550 there when the two BaT auctions close this upcoming week.

If you only have 3,800 miles then that is clearly in the "investment grade" crowd so what someone is willing to pay for a clean example "buying the seller" can provide a very strong result for the seller......

The more options the better.....I can't remember is the schedoni a 6-piece? https://bringatrailer.com/listing/a-full-6-piece-set-of-ferrari-550m-luggage-in-burgundy-produced-by-schedoni/

The right color the better.....seems like "resale red" and then your Grigio Titanio always does well (those two being the most common colors).

Other silly stuff like "no stickies" and all fobs including the red master can play a role.

Theoretically for the "collector crowd" yours could be close to the top, especially with the luggage. I always hope that cars like that would first potentially change hands privately so (not me, I can only have 1 super car) but maybe someone here will DM you with insterest?

If it is all OEM and low miles, I'd hire a professional photographer and then let it run on BaT if you don't get interest here -- that site garners huge eyes and brings "all the money" for the seller.

At the time this one was a wildcard as an example.....I thought at the time it was reasonable but now I think it would bring more..... https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-ferrari-550-maranello-14/

Keeps us in the loop. I love the chase and following these sales. -- Eric

p.s. I think it's silly and several others do as well I think.... but if you also take paint meter readings for the BaT crowd that always seems to give them great pleasure @henryr

p.p.s I live in the San Francisco/San Jose bay area and just had my 575 mounts redone and it was about $1,200 (easy for you to do in order to offer a "no questions" situation)?

 

That's another interesting reflection of the difference between the US market and the UK and possibly continental Europe. Shortly before it was felled by a falling tree a couple of years back, I had marketed my 550, which had just over 4000 miles and was pristine with excellent history. LHD, but before Brexit made LHD cars in the UK harder to sell, I priced it at just under £100k. No interest. Rosso corsa over Nero, so all very "collectible".

It was marketed by a well respected dealer, and received no offers at all.

This is the same car which came with an amusing tale created when I bought it in early 2015. I saw it advertised by a non franchised dealer near Rome. The market was hot, so I put a refundable deposit down over the phone while organising a flight from London for two days later, and a PPI from a Rome Ferrari dealer the next day. The dealer goes and does the PPI for me and immediately makes an offer for the car himself on behalf of a client.

Fortunately the vendor, dealer principal of a Fiat and Lancia dealer, was honorable. But it's the first time I have heard of a PPI operative try to muscle in on a deal. Still, I took that as a strong Buy recommendation, and laughed about it over an excellent seafood lunch in a beachside restaurant with the selling dealer.

 

Thanks Eric, I will keep you in the loop on what i decide to do, yes, 6 piece black luggage(never used), all fobs, Paint polished only once, minor swirl correction, no sticky, red car cover, seat covers and steering wheel covers.. (does not have the stitched rear shelf or the newer style wheels) I changed the engine mounts several times and kept the 550 mounts, only for originality purposes. other than that a super clean car.. in fact i just drove her to burn off some gas, to re-fil for winter soon. i agree BAT may be a good option, however i don't have a clue how to authoritatively list it there, with reservers, etc.. but will do some research. Interesting thing(slightly off topic) I tried to engage them to sell my 2011 amg e63,(absolutely a perfect car and last year of naturally aspirated engines, with 12,000 miles) and they told me they weren't interested in listing it, even though the same car sold 2 weeks prior?, just left a slightly bad east in mouth on BAT) Sorry to go off track.. but this has been super helpful.. will update with what i do decide to do.

 

I historically owned two 1975 Chevy Laguna S3’s and BaT also denied me on the red one (instagram #projectwhythehellnot ) I sold it anyways.

On bat they typically will ask you what you want the reserve and then may negotiate it to a level they believe will clear the market.

 

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1998-ferrari-550-maranello-2

LHD import for sale in the UK.

Having recently spent a month driving my RHD car in France, I was genuinely surprised how easy it is. Slightly limits overtaking, but no where near as much as I had previously assumed.

 

Now UK registered and listed for £90k with The Car Co (Chelsea), whoever they are, www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110278936246

 

https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-1998-ferrari-550-maranello-manual/?lot=54817

Looks like a nice example up for auction in the UK.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-ferrari-575m-maranello-21/

What will this bring?

 

Going to be interesting isnt it......watching closely...... Dan's should be more valuable.

 

The interior is... different.

Shame it is a six-speed. I really want a seven-speed or maybe a five-speed.

 

That is awesome...."seven speed or maybe five-speed". Heck those new ford trucks have 10! ;-)

This car has been all over the place. It was historically owned and commented on here in many places.

If I understand correctly it was converted while owned by @psarofim

In my notes I had it was done by @wildegroot but I guess that was wrong and this Argento one was done by GTO in LA whom also did the red one 129439. The Red one has Fabio's exhaust on it.

I understand Wil did this black one https://www.forza-mag.com/issues/181/articles/two-pedal-blues Not sure how many conversions he has done. Many people here speak very positively about @wildegroot (I see he and @SandydeG have been on the forum recently).

As many of you know I've been fascinated with the conversions....either the factory parts ones by GTO and deGroot or the full "made and sourced" parts by Art/EAG @Normal Guy Supercar

Very interesting car but for me @dhalperin13 's is even more so......