328 on BAT

The seller stated he washed the car a lot (3-4 times a year, despite not driving it much at all) which is likely the cause of rust around the drain holes if he wasn't careful about getting water out of hidden places. Unless the car got truly dirty, he would have been much better off with a waterless wash (quick detailer) product. He posted quite a bit of photos and I didn't see other areas of concern, but a PPI will provide needed confirmation. Unless the rust is far worse than it looks, I see a couple simple remediation options.

There was some recent major service, which is good. I would expect some other issues to crop up due to lack of use. The oil pan gasket leak is a non-issue in my opinion as long as that is really the issue. PPI should confirm that too.

The seller absolutely set his reserve too low, but bids have already gone well past that point so he'll come out OK in the end. He provided a huge amount of information, and that is a strong plus. Many sellers are stingy with info or slow to respond. Combine the overall condition, the records/info, the low mileage, and this is a pretty strong sell.

I paid $104K for an 87 with just under 26K miles in slightly better shape, zero rust, restored interior, new tires, recent paint correction, and a good PPI (asking price was $115K). That was a private party sale through AutoTrader. I looked at several other cars in equal/lesser condition ranging from $95-125K. So there is a bit of a range in cars that I'd label as an "excellent condition driver" but "not quite collector".

On BaT, the cars always seem to go for much higher than reality -- just do a search and look at some of the recent sales and they all run high no matter what the condition. I'll be surprised if this one goes for any less than $110K and will not be surprised if it reaches $120K or more. Savvy shoppers will place condition over anything else, but other shoppers will see 7100 miles and go nuts over the car.

BTW, current Hagerty valuation for a #2 condition car is $109K (up $9K from a couple months ago). They have been quite accurate from what I have seen.

 

That is a tough one to reply to. You don't get a discount just by being smart, you either pass on the car or suck it up and pay. The market has driven the prices high. When I started shopping a couple years ago, my budget for this level of car would be $70-80K. But the values kept creeping up and before long it was $100-110K for the same car. The only way you'd get back down to $70K is to find some really serious problems, but there's not going to be $30-40K of problems on this particular BaT car. I suspect PPI will flag $5-10K of problems, many of them non-critical.

 

Here's a link to Hagerty valuations for a good third party assessment of the market:

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1986-Ferrari-328_GTS
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If you sign up you can see history going back several years to see what the values have been doing over time. This BaT car is way way better than #3 and very close or at #2. The low miles will give it a perceived boost even though savvy shoppers know that may be a curse because the car was not driven much in recent years.

 

Agreed. The bottom line for me. It's a shame that it is now a story car with the rust blah blah blah. Rather pay bigger dollars and have a car that all aspects fit the odometer.

thx

 

Re Haggarty: If you read their ratings and strictly apply them, it seems to me that any car that is regularly driven is going to end up as a 4, simply based on their statement that a 3 (and, therefore, lower numbers) are NOT "regularly driven." OTOH they don't define it. "Regularly driven" could mean once every day...or once every decade. It would really mean whatever the buyer/seller agree that it means.

They also mention "correct parts" What does that mean? Does it mean I have to have a "Ferrari" thermostat or is a $5 one from Pep Boys OK?

The only car that would be a 1 (IMO) is if you jumped into your local time portal, went back to the 1980's and bought a new one off the showroom floor. And even that one might end up being a 2 if there was any dust on it.

 

So I saw a #1 car a few months ago -- it was a low mileage 1985 308 QV at a reputable dealer, about 5K miles if I remember. Was museum quality I'd say, just perfect, as-new cosmetically inside and out. Zero issues that I could see and the PPI report was perfect. The owner had driven it just enough, regularly, over 35 years to avoid mechanical issues that can happen if a car languishes, stayed on top of maintenance with great records, kept it stored with climate control, kept seat covers on it, and so on. That one sold for about $170K. Hagerty would have pegged it at $110K as a #1 but it was even better than that.

I had been talking to the dealer about another car and mentioned if I had the money I'd love to buy that 308 because it was the nicest I'd ever seen. He gave me a funny look and said "you don't want that car, it would be a shame to drive it". Different mentality at that condition and price point, but it helped me correct my internal thinking because I had been looking for a perfect car in the #2 range and price point. I saw many #2 with a wide +/- range on condition and pricing, sometimes not in step with each other, but learned a lot.

A perfect #2 doesn't exist so you have to sort out the good and bad and be able to feel comfortable with a particular car. It took me a while to find that ideal #2 car, in fact I initially passed on my 328 but came to my senses 10 days later after seeing a couple other cars (priced higher but in lesser condition) and realizing I had passed over a gem. Luckily it hadn't sold and the seller was willing to knock some off his asking price based on PPI results so it all worked out.

I feel like this BaT car is in the same category, a #2 -- not perfect but the issues we know about right now are minor. The seller has provided loads of info and been very transparent (to his own detriment perhaps). As long as the PPI doesn't flag any serious problems (beyond what can factor into value but not deter a sensible buyer), I think it would be a car to jump on and I think it deserves serious consideration.

 

If the guy indeed washed it too often (a pity, totally unnecessary) then there will be some other places to look for rust. A good PPI should cover that. If the PPI is clean and we only have the two minor rust spots and oil pan gasket leak, I'd mentally deduct a couple grand but still pursue the car without reservation. To me those are both "easy" defects to inherit.

The rust around the drain holes appears to be local enough that it could be remediated without a major repaint. A normal body shop will naturally want to turn it into a $5K paint job of the whole nose but those of us who value factory paint would want to pursue a more local preservation-style fix instead, where only those two specific areas are cleaned up then repainted with an airbrush.

It all hinges on the PPI really. And that is the way it should always be, but it's not typical for BaT. I have seen worse condition 328s go for much more without a PPI there. This was a good example that sold for $130K:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1986-ferrari-328-gts-27/

Rare color and low mileage (10K) were probably the perceived value boosters, but the records were not good, it was due for a full belt service, there were paint chips here and there, the rear bumper was askew, the mirrors were floppy, pretty severe bend in front hood, etc. You could accept some of these issues and be reasonable, but this car had many of them and went for $130K. To me that was way way too high.

 

I think that was a good example of a little bidding fever that got ahead of the real value.

In that same price range, this would be a better car to own I think.

Sorted, award winner, higher mileage but in the wrapper!

https://www.ferraribeverlyhills.com/auto/used-1989-ferrari-328-gts-targa-beverlyhills-ca/54046412/

 

May can you send us pictures of yours, because you seems to be very critical with the others

 

Please restate so someone can understand the question.

thx

 

AMEN! Thank you!

 

Let's flip the logic around and shop for a $70K 328 in today's market environment. What you'll find out there will be in much much worse shape than this car. I can think of a couple 328 auctions on Cars & Bids and PCars recently that petered out around $65-75K -- that's where buyers exercised some discipline (and I agreed completely, they were not good cars). Those cars were way worse than this BaT car.

I will wait for the PPI results on this BaT car before estimating what I'd offer (if I'd offer).

 

I know this is unfair but what the hell!

I want this in a 328 on a 7100 mile car!

Unreasonable?


https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1999-355-f1-berlinetta-red-beige-4400-miles-100-point-winner-classiche-certified.641334/

 

I bought my 89 in 1999, with 20k miles , for $ 47,900. The only issue was a bad oil cooler, so the dealer replaced it for me, and did a belt and bearing replacement , as well as the water pump, just in case , all part of the sale, in other words I did not have to pay for it. At 99,000 miles , and over the course of 22 years, the car has been taken care of better than most children are lol. Good luck with the purchase, these cars will run forever as long as you maintain them. The 308s are good cars, but the 328s are better and more reliable . The 89 being the absolute best since 1976 .

Thank you​

 

If I was the OP, and I intended to drive the car instead of just looking at in the garage, I would pass on this BaT 328 irrespective of the results of tomorrow’s PPI. As Rob indicated, the present high bid is well above what a well sorted and regularly driven 1986 should go for, and in typical BaT fashion with a bidding frenzy sure to take place during the last five minutes of the auction the winning bid will likely be well into 1989 GTS territory. So if you have the funds sitting under the mattress and are looking to purchase a red/beige 328 GTS I would definitely consider springing for the 29k mile 1989 328 GTS at Beverly Hills Ferrari in the link you posted. I may be biased, but the 1989 328 is a much more desirable car.

 

LOVE THAT!!!

 

Who was that dealer? He was amazing!

 

It was an exotic car dealer in Costa Mesa California, no longer there, for ,many years now .

Thank you

 

You can find a 328 like the car you listed. But, you will pay a good premium for a cherry low miles car. Like others have said, if you plan on driving it buy one that's had miles put on it over the years instead of a garage ornament. 90,000 miles is a lightly driven 30 year old vehicle.


I think the prices on 328/308 cars are just rising with the tide. This car is being sold by the original owner, no stories, no major issues. The seller is being as communicative as possible on every topic and question. I think it's a solid buy if your looking for a low miles car.

 

Sorry , are you referring to the BAT 328 or the Bev Hils 328?

thx

 

I believe I looked at that 328 at Bev Hills. The 1989 is desirable as the last year of production (or if you want an ABS model with the convex wheels) but you have to sort through the same pros/cons as all the other model years. The car had some minor cosmetic issues and was a little overpriced in my opinion. Actually, every 308/328 I saw at a Ferrari dealer was priced higher than market levels and wasn't necessarily any better than other cars out there. One I saw had super low miles and presented very well, but had only been driven a couple hundred miles in the last 5 years, and had only gotten basic catchup maintenance and left a lot of unknowns to the next owner. Maybe they can get more money being a dealer or maybe they shoot high and negotiate down.

I still feel like a private party seller with good records and a proven/consistent mileage history is where the best deals are. Some private party sellers are forthcoming with details and glad to take photos and answer questions, while others are not. You need to be able to gather enough information to have confidence in the car, reduce your risk, and know what you are getting into. And a lot of that has to happen before you even get to the point of ordering a PPI otherwise you'd waste a lot of time on PPIs.

A good quote from Hemmings is:

I'd rather find a car with some known and acceptable/fixable/liveable warts than get a car with unknowns.