250 PF Coupe ...

Gary is right, but I was hesitant to post that because of what Turbo-joe said. I wanted to double check my facts before posting. Ferrari is odd in that there is a groove cut around the main bearings in the block and main cap so the oil is actually feed in through the bottom. See the attached 250GT photos. For reference I threw in a photo of the baffles for the oil pick up and a shot of the pickup tube.

Note the oil pressure issue was minor, most people would not have noticed, it was on my 330 which I no longer have. Unlike my 250 it was a platinum winner.

Cheers Jim

 

Hi Gary, thanks for that explanation, but can you explain a little more? Is the crankshaft thrusting fore and aft as the motor accelerates and decelerates, then the holes alignment changes? Thank you.

john

 

Gary is saying the crankshaft is forced down onto the bearing in the main bearing cap under load. This reduces the clearance between the crank and the main bearing reducing the oil flow out of the main bearing. Under no load the crank rises up which increases the gap between the main bearing and the crankshaft journal thus increasing flow. The movement is around 0.002 inch give or take in the vertical direction. Most cars have the oil feed to the upper main bearing so you do not see this movement on the oil pressure gauge but Ferrari's supply the oil through the lower bearing so you see the shift. A shift of a couple of thousands in bearing clearance will make a big difference in oil flow. Especially since there are 7 main bearings. The photo below shows the oil supply is limited to the the lower bearing. Note the groove in the bearing only goes between the two oil holes and does not extend into the upper bearing.

Cheers Jim
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oh sorry, I forgot that in the lower half bearing there is a groove
so my thinking was opposite

long time ago when I rebuilt a 250 engine and not looking at the photos I did once

but this bearing half looks pretty good

 

Thanks Jim, I get it now.

john

 

The oil pressure drop under braking or cornering is a long known problem. Paul Frère, the racer and engineer and test driver who won Le Mans 1960 on a Ferrari 250 TR, mentioned that in a test about the 250 GT TdF in 1958 (Motor Revue # 27 1958) if I remember correctly). I experienced that too and therefor had modified the oil sump with on and filled more oil. You should have minimum 1 liter more than what the manual says. There is basicly no danger of overfilling the oil sump because there is enough distance between the crankshaft and the oil level.

 

At the Metropolis Druten last Saturday:

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How long has 1567 GT been part of the collection?

 

Sorry, don't know

 

In reference to Post #1631, in the day, the racers put 14 quarts in the sump and let the motor blow the excess oil out the breathers until it reached a "happy" level. Back then nobody worried about "catch tanks" or oil on the track.

 

With about 20 minutes left in the auction this one has been sitting at the $400k mark for a bit:

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1959-ferrari-250-gt-coupe-by-pinin-farina#comments

 

Wow, reserve not met. Never went over the $400k mark.

Any learned opinions on what kept it down?

These cars are unbelievably undervalued.

 

Engine looked pretty good to me, but crappy color and lots and lots of missing or wrong parts. The description sounded like rust in the wheel wells. The dash looked like black wrinkle paint..........but I didn't look very closely.

 

Well… they are not sport cars.


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Well, ... most Ferraris (vintage era*) aren't.

* Cant' say if most modern ones are or aren't.

 

This coupe has been for sale for a long time, which does not help. The drum brakes have been replaced with discs. The upholstery is relatively poor. What I have always noticed about this coupe is that the inner frame of the bonnet is strange, not normal Pininfarina Coupe in detail, and appears made up.

 

probably robbed the drums for a tr or 250 tdf

 

The chassis page of the build-sheet confirms a drum brake car; however, the presence of a proper handbrake lever and a vacuum assist suggests that the car wasn't necessarily "robbed" of its drum brakes. More likely it returned to the factory or the dealer for a retrofit. There are many early PF coupes with disk brakes.

Imagine, you have just bought a new Ferrari then you realize if you had just waited a few months you could have had the same car with disk brakes. You call the dealer and say WTF! The dealer says, no problem bring it back and we'll do right by you. I think this is how most of these conversions came about, and it's even likely that Ferrari offered a "kit" of sorts.

john

 

Yes John, possibly a factory conversion. Sometimes the build sheets are hand marked by the factory for conversion notes. I have seen factory hand marks on build sheets for period factory conversion from single Marelli distributor to twin Marelli set. It is unfortunate in my view when the original drum brakes are changed out for discs or when the hairpin valve springs of an inside plug engine are converted to coil springs. The original technical conceptual architecture is lost.

 

These cars would often come back to the dealer in a couple years as a trade-in. The other likely scenario is that the dealer would then convert the brakes to make the car an easier resell.

john

 

Interesting video about a PF Coupé that may have started Lamborghini....

 

Thank you, amazing story about Ferrari and Mr. Lamborghini. But what an ordeal changing the clutch on those old tractors, the whole front end and engine had to come out.

 

1331 GT.
Born Bianco MM 10319 with plastic and leather Turchese VM 3478 interior.
However, Ferruccio Lamborghini was not the first and original owner.
He bought it as a one year old used car on 7 April 1960 and had it registered 27 May 1960 in the town of Ferrara, Italy, because he lived in Renazzo, part of Cento, in the Province of Ferrara.

Marcel Massini

 

And I believe openly for sale for a long time and on show for all to see at a dealer in Italy. Marcel will know better than me. Some 'find'.

 

1331 GT has been on the market since at least 2006 (!), in all sorts of condition, without and with some engine. In Switzerland, Italy, Belgium, all over Europe.
Not really a "find", me thinks.

Marcel Massini