Citroen hydraulics - Khamsin, Bora, early Merak, late Indy | Page 11 | FerrariChat

Citroen hydraulics - Khamsin, Bora, early Merak, late Indy

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by thecarnut, Jan 11, 2009.

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  1. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    I used that on my Espada due to the mild internal surface rust after cleaning them well with a rust remover but ... Once you do that's it ... it's in their for the duration.
     
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  2. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    My Khamsin was cycling the hydraulic pump every 10 seconds, which did not seem correct. Also, the "clunk" every time the pump would cycle was louder than what I remember on other cars. I posted my question on the Khamsin thread suspecting the culprit was something related with the steering (which for Maserati is unique to the Khamsin) as the brake accumulators had been recently been rebuilt and the car has a new main sphere.

    What I suspected was not the problem. It was the pressure regulator. Dave Burnham (Citroen guru) said that although regulators do not usually go bad sometimes dirt will get lodged in the pressure relief valve. If you unscew the valve a small metal ball will fall out (careful not to loose it). I cleaned the ball and the orifice with Q-tips. Unfortunately the cycle time went up only from 10 seconds to 12 seconds; still not good.

    The next test was to replace the regulator itself. I have an extra regulator of unknown condition that I've had for over 20 years. Replacing a Khamsin regulator requires patience and small hands. I am happy to report that this solved the problem!

    Cycle time is now around 30 seconds and gone is the load clunk. Also, after the engine if off the steering would only work for about 4 minutes and now it works for 15 minutes. The brakes maintain pressure overnight.

    Ivan

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  3. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Excellent news, and excellent results! Now we know how that can happen. Do you know whether the bad regular can be rebuilt?
    - Art
     
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  4. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Dave Burnham said he had a way to test the regulator therefore I assume he also has a way to fix them.

    Ivab
     
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  5. MK1044

    MK1044 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 6, 2011
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    You guys know that every mechanical component can be rebuilt. The only limit is whether the repair costs approach the cost of a new component.

    I don't know, but I suspect that inside these regulators are a spring, diaphragm, some orifices and some seals. Unless there is a crack on the casting they could be rebuilt. And even a cracked casting could be repaired if the owner wants to maintain complete originality in the car.
     
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  6. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula 3

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    ..interestingly enough, the primary LHM sphere is throw-away. Not rebuildable. But thank you for the reminder, everything else you write is true.
    - Art
     
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  7. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    I met Dave @ Pocono raceway several years ago. He was there at a track event with his 84 Biturbo racer. I forget what I was driving that day. It might have been my 84. We talked about what he's done to his as well as my Ghibli Open Cup race car. I introduced him to the BiturboZentrum website crowd where he shared his front brake rotor/caliper upgrade modifications.

    Yeah this is too bad but I bet there's a very good reason behind it. I lost my engine builder who was uniquely talented and very reasonable overnight to an injury so I'm sure a lot of folks are going to miss both him and his shop. Let's hope someone really talented, hard working, full of energy and young wants to take this on.
     
  8. highwaybora

    highwaybora Karting

    Jun 18, 2013
    142
    SoCal
    Unfortunate news, definitely. Burnham has a landmark kind of reputation.
    Have only spoken to him by phone (from SoCal) but clearly good reasons existed for his fine reputation.

    My Bora and I had relied on super-expertise of Greg Armstrong (Costa Mesa - Historic Race Engineering) for over two decades...
    BUT alas he moved a few years ago.. to Virginia! A long reach.
    RECOMMENDED!! ..and for nearly ANY enthusiast/museum/Mille-milia car of last century. Literally.

    Any good Bora 4.7/4.9 V8-experienced recommendations local to me would be much appreciated.
    I've had good work done since, BUT...
     
  9. highwaybora

    highwaybora Karting

    Jun 18, 2013
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    SoCal
     
  10. highwaybora

    highwaybora Karting

    Jun 18, 2013
    142
    SoCal
    Reply here is only in re Bora redlining...
    Works FINE. Regularly.
     
  11. highwaybora

    highwaybora Karting

    Jun 18, 2013
    142
    SoCal
    --THANKS IVAN... being prepared by reading this sort of experience in advance does help !!
    Not a Bora problem for me now, just 'interested'.
    ::N
     
  12. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula 3

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    What the article doesn't address is the time it would take for the critical Citroen knowledge and skill necessary for continuing success to be transferred to a new owner. Figure about 3 years, maybe more. But those would be working and revenue years, not losses. But it speaks to the commitment necessary to pull it off.

    Dave lives about 25 minutes away and I get to enjoy lunch with him almost every week. My proximity to his shop was the primary reason I bought a neglected and questionably maintained Bora from Ivan back in October 2012. It's interesting to reflect on this article and our relationship - Dave (and his earlier assistant, the legendary mechanic Carter Wiley RIP) welcomed me to come to the shop and wrench as mush as I wanted on my needy Bora. So I spent the first 3-6 months learning about Maseratis, Citroens, the Bora and the LHM system.. plus Tatras, Panhards, Lancias and myriad other brands. Dave's goal wasn't just a pleasant business attitude ... it was for me to be able to take care of myself and not have to call their shop for minor issues. They and I succeeded to a large degree. I haven't had the Bora in their shop for years, but I drop by for lunch frequently. I have now added Khamsin 1196 to my stable, on which I spent hundreds of hours to refurbish, and it has only been to Dave's shop for a steering rack rebuild and alignment - which transformed the Khamsin into what Alfieri intended.

    This is all to underscore that Dave is an excellent resource, has a great attitude, and would make the transfer of Citroen knowledge and skills useful and successful for a receptive successor who steps up to the challenge.

    Cheers,
    - Art

    Here is a pic of Dave and Allan with our Khamsin for the steering rack and alignment work..
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  13. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    You are extremely lucky to have such a resource and relationship nearby. There are only a few other similar to that which I can think of. I had an very experienced, former Formula One, engine rebuilder in PA who did some work on my Ghibli Open Cup engine and would also let me use his shop to set the valve clearances using all of his equipment and special jigs. That was amazing. He was forcibly retired 5 years ago when he injured an arm badly at his shop. :( Another is located in Southern California so he's a telephone only guy for me. He's a very talented , former aircraft mechanic, who now services exotice cars especially older Lamborghinis. He's a come to his shop and het get your car fixed sort of guy if he's not all backed up. Robert Huber. http://vintagelambo.com/ I bet he'd have no problem working on a Bora.
     
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