83 Mondial QV - EV conversion project using Tesla LDU

Not a good idea.

 

I didn't think so either Urs but one of the EV conversion nerds on another site was suggesting this is a better way to line up the EV motor with the rear spindles. For some reason, he thinks that bringing the LDU closer towards the middle is somehow going to be more beneficial than the difference in axles. I think he's full of it as we aren't talking about that significant a weight that far behind the rear spindles.... Compared to say a 911 where the entire engine block hangs behind the rear axle.

While this is not a front wheel drive car, I can imagine the significant difference in axle length would contribute a bit to torque steer. Of course, that solved with FWD OEMs by varying the thickness of the axles but again, that's an attempt to solve a problem brought about by trying to solve another problem. Silly

 

Light Stalk Removal - In Progress
I finished fabrication of my steering wheel removal tool. The socket works. It's not perfect (needs some additional trimming) but it worked well enough to remove the nut and will be good enough for reinstallation.
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I now need some help from Afterburner or someone else -- how do I remove the momo base now from the shaft? I see its keyed so I don't think I can screw it off.
Its not wanting to just pull off though so I think I need to exert more force.
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Ideas I Had
1) Do I need to pull it straight off with a jaw puller?
https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/loaner-jaw-attachment-puller/p/oemtools-5-ton-2-3-jaw-puller/516519_0_0
2) Or, do I use a balancer like this to screw into a few of the holes that the steering wheel mounts to and push it off with a central bolt?
https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/loaner-harmonic-balancer-installer/p/oemtools-harmonic-balancer-puller/555524_0_0

 

WD40 and a hammer... I made a pull-ring with 2 pins that fit into the existing hole on the hub's sides:
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Then put it under tension and tap the threaded bolt
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As the hub is an alloy part I would not try to use the steering wheel screws to pull. If you strip them, it's a bit of a problem.

 

Thanks Urs. I'll do something similar.

 

Urs:
My MOMO hub didn't have side holes so I couldn't fabricate a pull ring like you but I managed to pull it off with a similar tool by clamping the back and having the center bolt of the pusher push down slowly.

Do you have anymore detailed pics of the column disassembly? If not, I'll take my time (I see some small retaining rings but I need to stare at it to see if those are holding the stalks together OR holding the stalks in place.

I did notice some of the base plastic cracked so I will likely pull all three stalks off (gently) and disassemble them.

 

Gunn the stalk assembly is held in place with 2 nuts on top of 2 studs fitted to the column casting. Squeezed between the stalk assembly and the column casting is a plastic molding including the chassis number:
The blinker return ring is clipped on:
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Stalk assembly nuts
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plastic housing
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Stalk assembly
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column studs
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Some detail shots of the switches before restoration

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typical cracks at the stalk bases

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When you pull off the stalk ends put a plastic bag over it - there is a spring and steel ball inside that will fly out and might be hard to find.

The contact for switch restoration and replacement parts here on FC is Verell.

 

So after a few weeks away (kid had a long spring break so we took him to see my MIL in CO and got some spring skiing in), I started working on the car again.
- My first batch of EV parts are getting closer to shipment (everything ready except the LDU) so I took the plunge and made the first "real" modification by cutting the mounting top brackets on the subframe to allow the LDU to be mounted more forwar
- I also removed all the trunk panels as I will need to lift the trunk floor a few inches to make room for the LDU (and relocate the top brackets).
- It's starting to feel "real" now
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Wipers/Headlight Stalk
On the side project of figuring out why my headlight stalk wasn't working as expected, I took apart the steering column and found the root cause:
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1) the plastic part of the wiper stalk that actually contacts the wiring had broken into little pieces.
2) Holy Hell Ferrari Part #119317 aka the Deviosgancio aka the central stalks are expensive.
https://ferrparts.com/diagrams/mondial-3-0-qv-1984/steering-culumn-036#021
https://www.eurospares.co.uk/Parts/119317/Ferrari

Observations:
- Those damned italians never really expected anyone to take the columns apart. Near as I can figure it, the entire steering column was built on a workbench and then just bolted onto the car.
- This means that the wires going into the stalk are soldered onto the wiper/switch assembly.
- To add insult to injury: even if you drop the steering column (easily done by removing the top lever/bolt that tilts the column and the two nuts/bolts at the base) to allow the cable bundles to move freely, the connector at the end of the stalks is TOO big to fit through the holes in the steering column casting. Holy moly that's a terrible design.

Questions/Thoughts on how to Fix my Stalks
- I suppose I could glue the plastic pieces back together again; however, I'm not 100% confident that these stalks made of such brittle plastic will last more than a few months. I don't really want to be fixing this over and over again.

- I haven't reached out to Verrell but I plan to do so once I have the stalks fully removed and I can take pics to assess the damage.

Q: Does anyone know what the donor car was for these wiper stalks? Perhaps I can buy these parts off a Fiat/whatever with more availability.
- Considering that the mounting mechanism is fairly simple (the stalks are mounted to a ring that slides onto the column), I'm no longer using the stock fuse+relay panel so I "control" the wiring on the other side of the stalks and can wire it up however I want, and I don't care about originality as long as it looks decent, I'm not above REPLACING the stalks entirely. Therefore..

Q: Can someone make a suggestion of perhaps simpler stalks I should consider looking at potentially adapting to this car? The new wiper/light/turn signal stalks can be easily mounted on a bracket I 3D print/fabricate myself and just slid onto the column. In truth, I really lonly need the turn signals and I can always mount the lights/wiper control somewhere else but I'm open to keeping all three (headlights, turn signalts, and wipers) column mounted.
Any more common car's stalks you think might work for my needs -- I'm open to suggestions (perhaps something BMW, porsche, or even even a vintage/restomod american is fine).

 

Won’t the unequal length resulting torque steer?

 

Not sure what exactly you are referring to - by moving the LDU forward, I will minimize more of the axle angles while keeping the LDU centered without resorting to separating the inverter and causing the axle lengths to be different.

 

You can unclip the connector ends easily with a small screw driver, which then will allow you to remove the plastic housing and slide the cables out. Just mark where which color goes.

 

I can confirm that the same wiper and light stalks were used on the Lancia Delta Integrale
Albeit the Integrale was rather an exotic as well, I assume Lancia used these stalks on all Delta's of the 80's and probably other models of their ample product line back then.
Given that Lancia was part of FIAT it is well possible that this is a generic Fiat part..
Worth looking into.

Best,
Mondi Cab

 

If you look at this thread in TR section, its maybe the same as mondial.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/headlight-stock-for-tr-from-lancia-delta.563127/

 

The Mondial matches the Ferrari 400i so not quite as spindly and long as the Lancia/testarossa combination switches.
- The advice to check with oddparts is good so since they are just north of me here in CA, I'll give them a ring.

This is a pretty terrible picture but if the Lancia Delta is the same as the Mondial, this is a pretty decent price ($175 shipped to the US)
Lancia part #176972980
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293294474614

Q: What's the trick to removing the ring that the horn button actuates?

I'm not a purist so looking online at a bunch of potential alternative stalks as well; I just need some stalks that work as switches as I don't mind repurposing the wires as needed. I have about 1.5" of thickness around the column so I just ordered a few off Amazon to investigate.

 

In the month or so since I last posted, I've ordered my batteries, am waiting for my LDU and the first package from my supplier to arrive, and a week ago caught omicron. It sucks to be isolated from my family but after two days of feeling that I had no energy, I'm mostly back to normal and am just waiting for my virus levels to drop to a level where I feel comfortable exposing my family again. Thankfully, noone else except me, including my elderly parents who were visiting, tested positive.
FUN FACT: the CDC recommendation that its safe to leave isolation after 5 days was made with pre-Omicron data; Omicron causes early symptoms but the viral load peak is often in 5-7 days; I caught this when I tested on day 4 and was surprised to see how dark the reaction was on my antigen test. It looked like a 'marker' had been used to fake the test. Interesting article https://www.medrxiv.org/lookup/doi/10.1101/2022.02.01.22269931

On the combination stalks repair
I looked at multiple solutions and finally settled on having Jim @ ODD Parts Fabrication rebuild it for me. I was originally hesitant to do so because there are plenty of other places to burn money on this project but I realized that even if I repaired the light stalk myself, the turn signal stalk showed signs of cracking as well and could break in a few months. It definitely seems like a piece where you have one clean shot to repair it properly. After that, i'll just be a back. Jim ended up finding my project interesting enough that he decided to help me out.

Once I have a repaired stalk, I can reassemble my center column and finish getting my 12V wiring migrated from the stock fuse/relay panel to the aftermarket unit.

Right Hand Foglight Missing Interior reflector
Anyway, I did find one more item I was planning to tackle while I'm sitting here in isolation and I was hoping for some advice

1) Here is my Mondial has a Mondial 3.2 front bumper and here is the 3.2 front right fog light/Turn signal assembly with the covers removed.

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2) Upon closer inspection, it looks like I'm missing the internal reflector on bottom assembly (it's for the fog light). The other signals (turn signals, marker lights) still have their reflectors. The Left hand side assembly has one.

Potential Solutions:

- Pricing is atrocious for a replacement RH assembly. The Mondial 3.2 (the bumper that came with the car) and 328 share the same assembly. The asking price for a new assembly is more than I paid for all 5 tbird donors I acquired for lemons parts combined ($2500+) so I'm not buying that.

- I'm no purist. Since there's a cover for this RH assembly, any reflector that will fit will be good enough for me. I'm already planning to replace these bulbs with LEDs.

I did find a busted assembly that i could extract the reflector from but its still selling for a stupid pricing ($350). I could lowball the guy but I'm not sure I even want to spend this kind of money. You can also see what the internal reflector I'm missing looks like.
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Front Right Running Light Fog Lamp European LHD 61732900 OEM Ferrari 328 1986-89 | eBay
Model: 86 FERRARI. Pacific Motors OEM Auto Parts. Pacific Motors is located in Detroit, MI. Happy viewing!
www.ebay.com

One idea I had is maybe to find a new mfg part and just shove it into the stock Ferrari housing. It's a rectangular reflector after all. The interior reflector should be approx 2.5" x 6" but can be smaller in either dimension or larger in the width as I'll just glue it into the stock housing as a place to mount the foglights.

Q: So, do you folks have any ideas on rectangular fogs/marker lamps I should look at OR a source from a more common car for these interior reflectors?
- Anything I can buy from Amazon or Autozone/Oreilly (both have free return options) is probably ideal. I friend suggested late 90s-early 2000s Chevy S10s used rectangular fogs. I need to take measurements though but any other suggestions of potential donors would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
-g

 

... scan your good side and 3d print it mirrored ...

 

Q: Is there a Mondial / QV / 3.2 / T bulb list?

I'm going through the bulbs on my car and replacing them with LEDs and some of them aren't very discernable.
Is there a bulb list for QV and 3.2 cars (my foglight/turn signal assembly is from a 3.2/Ferrari 328).

I'm also not 100% sure what the three bulbs on top of the foglight do.
All three seem to be 1157 socket.
The outer bulb has even height side lugs and one bottom contact. Marking says 11073
The middle bulb has uneven height side lugs and two bottom contacts. Marking says 1102
The inner most bulb has even height side lubs and one bottom contact. Marking says L62
The foglight bulb is marked H3; that one is easy.

I have some replacements on their way from Amazon but I'm curious to understand what exactly these top bulbs do/what people use.
If you folks have more details on the other bulbs (side markers, rears, etc) I'd be interest in compiling a list as well.

As far as the headlamps/High beams are concerned, I replaced them with 5.75" DOT stamped LEDs.

 

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In Europe, the parking lights are 5W bulbs, whereas the blinker is 25W. The pin position distinction between offset and opposite prevents the fitting of the incorrect bulb in the same diameter socket.

 

Thanks Urs.
Huh. I must have misunderstood the bottom beam - they are ONLY used for daylight flashing and there's never a "fog light mode?
Well that's interesting. I may have to re-wire that.
-g

Urs:
On the Rear, I have two Red round lights (outer edge), two Yellow round lights (closer to the plate), and two side marker lights

Q: Can you please confirm that the Yellow round lights are indeed the rear turn signal indicators? I know this sounds silly but I literally drove this car for 3 min before pulling it in for disassembly.

I also noticed that on the brake (red rear light) assembly, there are (2) 1157 Bulbs on each side. That makes sense but I found it curious that there are two small T67 bulbs facing inwards.
Q: Is this for rear trunk illumination?

 

Gunn I don't know - the American owner's manual says so. In Europe they seems to only be fog lamps... I don't have a US wiring diagram so can't check. Does your dashboard have a front fog light switch?

 

1. aam

You bring up an interesting point.
- My car has a 3.2 bumper despite being an 83 QV.
- It DOES seem to be wired for foglights (see picture) BUT when looking at the wiring I have at my front nose, I can't seem to find wiring for the foglights themselves. I may have to run my own or repurpose existing wiring.

- I see the wiring going into the harness from the fuse/relay panel area but I need to confirm which wire coming out of the harness are supposed to go to the foglights.
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I checked the wiring of your car and indeed you should have a single combined front fog light/daylight flasher wire in purple/black going to each front bumper light positions. It's not part of the original 3-pin connector for the combined blinker/parking light unit of the qv.

 

This would seem to have been refitted at some point, because all cars I have seen so far had the RED round lights closer to the plate and the yellow ones on the outer edges.
And yes, the yellow ones are the indicaters on the rear (turn signal) and at the same time have a white inside circle that serves as a reverse light.

Trunk illuminatin is provided by the license plate illumination.

 

Because legally they need to be at a certain maximum distance from the max width of the car. Fitted to the inside, they touch the limit. It also makes sense to have the blinkers at the corner.

Nope, by a bulb fitted to the tail lamp supply wire shining forward through a hole in the trunk liner

 

1) Huh. I'll reverse the Amber/Red lenses. Simple enough change.
2) I didn't think about the reverse light but what you and MondiCab say makes sense.

3) I fitted the first bulbs that came in (front middle parking bulbs) and came across one curiosity: the LED replacements flare out above the 1157 socket more quickly than the bulbs and this extra width (18.4mm vs 15-17mm) is just a hair too wide for the new LED bulb to push in and seat in the sockets because of the opening in the reflector. The sockets are also epoxied into the housing so i cannot just mount them a little farther forward. I also looked and there is no "bulb socket extension" to allow a bulb to be seated higher (and why would there be?)

The fix was to take a dremel and gently sand the inside lip of the reflectors above the base. Removing just a little bit of the plastic gave enough width for the bulbs to slide in and seat now. Problem solved.

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