The end of Ferrari, as we know it

Killer argument You certainly argue like a politician, if you don't like the facts you call them a lie

The 1,470 kg dry weight is definitely more true than any American car manufacturer claiming 0-60 times with 1-foot roll out (which has never been 0 but more like 3-60)

 

Ferraris have been proven over and over again to be heavier than advertised. Their weights are based on a configuration that won't exist in the real world.

 

Proven, so you have actual sources or is it more of an urban legend? Or is it more true with the older Ferrari's? And are you talking 1% or 10% heavier?

I can only seem to find that SportAuto weighted the 488 Pista back in 2019 with a full tank as 1,481 kg and Ferrari claim dry weight as 1,385 kg, so let's say the 78l fuel weighs around 60 kg, so that is 36 kg or 2,6% off

Here is a guy weighing his 360 Modena (with with electric seats) OEM exhaust and half a tank of fuel at 3,265 lbs and Ferrari claim dry weight to be 3,291
And here with his 458 with 3/4 tank coming in at 3,360 which according to wiki is 3,450

I don't know, I can't find any that support your claim, would be interesting to see the some of the sources you have for your claim

 

@Newjoint

A person listed companies that 'didn't change' and went bankrupt on this very thread … said see how good they are now they changed!! Then immediately proposed Ferrari don’t change.

I had to read it 3 times

Then he got mad at me for simply pointing this out.

must be friends with the incandescent light bulb enthusiast.

here’s the beauty, folks that hate the 296 because they don’t like who made it, don’t have to buy it!!! See how easy that was?

what keeps me scratching my head though is folks keep telling me it’s not reason they hate it.

just be honest, why lie?
That said there were 3 folks that did admit eventually admit they just hate Ferrari, kudos. I prefer honesty over consensus.

I’m just left wondering for these 3 chaps, why hang around a Ferrari enthusiast forum then?!?

 

Car and Driver also weighed a Pista and got 3308lbs (1503kg) vs what Ferrari claims of 3053lbs (1387kg) Ferrari does note that is with 'optional lightweight equipment" though.
That's a 8.3% difference, pretty significant in my book.

 

As it happens.....

 

Look, I get it now; some folks here hate Ferrari today because of 2 reasons.

1) Because they don't like the political views of Enzo and his son.
and/or
2) They must reaffirm what they 'currently' have is 'the best of all time.

Feel free to discuss #1 in the P&R forum here.

I have a question for #2, though. Do you not believe in the concept of 'the tide lifts all boats'? That is for the sake of argument; let's say your F355 is the best of all time (I think that's probably the sweet spot myself, not being sarcastic.)

Doesn't a successful modern Ferrari HELP, not HURT, your current love affair with your vintage car? From Both ends?

The change makes your cherishement that much rarer and no longer obtainable, and a successful marque will have dollars to further brand equity?

Did Toyota go all in making blenders (they call cars) prevent this?

On the contrary.

 

Also Brooks weighed his SF90 and it was significantly heavier than quoted. Real life vs. best case scenario.

My Pista had every carbon option including the wheels, radio delete and no lifter and weighed just below 3300lbs with 1/2 a tank.

 

Pista should be 3240, so very close with oils any everything. 400 lbs off on Brooks SF90 sounds weird

So Ferrari is not lying, people are just speccing the car wrong according to optimal weight. The added weight in options may have it justifications, but the stated weight by Ferrari is achievable.

I would agree that 8% above is significant, but if it is a choice (due to price or other things) then it is just that, a choice

 

In comparison my 765LT is spot on to the quoted numbers by McLaren. Same experience for Brooks. He has a video showing this. I'd like to weigh my 812 GTS and see how that compares to specs.

I haven't weighed my 488 Evo but I bet it is close 3200 lbs as well and that excludes a passenger seat.

 

I just want to point out we're quibbling over weight...with folks that say performance is already commoditized...hence these things don't matter.



It's funny when people don't realize they are in heads you lose, tails I win type of a conundrum with their positions.

 

Weight is critical and a big reason these current hybrids don't have ideal driving dynamics. Once the tech is improved and the weight reduced then I believe they will be more acceptable. Same for EV sports cars. Just too much weight to be sporty. 4k+ lbs to stop really takes a lot of effort and hard turns will wear tires much more quickly not mention the inability for a car to rotate easily.

 

Agreed wholeheartedly! But just peruse this thread. There are folks here who argue EVs and technology are static

Talk about oxymorons.

 

You can do things with hybrid and EVs driving dynamically that you can not do with an ICE - advanced torque vectoring - plus very low center of gravity and better weight distribution. You'll find that it will rotate very easily and the speeds out of a corner is where it really shines.

Of course, you will feel the weight under braking, but so far the reviews about the 296s driving dynamics are very positive.

Regarding tire wear, a heavy right foot will be a larger problem for your tires unless you are taking track use.

 

Those Hybrids beating record after record on tracks? Formula 1?

Synthetic Deep Fakes.

Give it up @695

Who are you trying to fool? FAKE.



Just see the upcoming C63 4 Cylinder 600+ HP

How MB pull that off with a 4 banger??!?! You guessed it.

Yet folks will whinge that horsepower is a 'bad thing' all of sudden?


***

Somebody on another thread now posted Lizzo (yes the singer) as a reason to hate Ferrari. I had a hard time wrapping my head around what that was all about.

 

F1 cars use very lightweight batteries and make regenerative power. You cant compare to what Ferrari is offering today, perhaps some time in the future as I stated when the tech improves or trickles down.

 

You can also do things with ICE and not have to deal with the extra 300lbs of batteries. No one wants to track a 4k lb car even if it has 1000HP over lighter less powered car unless its a straight-line.

 

I haven't perceived the comments like you have. Most comments are people giving their reasons as to why an EV Ferrari is not appealing to them and I agree regardless of how fast it is. Unless I missed it you are ignoring the reasons that make the cars appealing to the majority of people that buy them. If/when Ferrari develops a ~3,000lb car with supplemental power, great sound and the other tangibles then it will be a home run. I am waiting.

 

296 and SF90 both use regenerative braking my friend, just like F1 KERS.


As for the weight of the battery, the 296 is a porker? For the sake of argument, since we're not going to settle any definitive weight number here. Say I agree with you, that it's 5,000 pounds. I'll let you know after I test drive next week how it feels compared to the F8.

If you can't wait, here are about 10 recent reviews on this very site from members.

hmm, funny, none of them are saying it feels 'heavier' than the previous gen.

 

We definitely are reading a different thread then. I'm open to correction though.

Could you tell me those reasons again why La Ferrari or say the 296 are no longer appealing?

 

If we are to believe the weighing of Brooks SF90, then the SF90 in that spec is 4000lb and I have not meet any interested in racing cars on track that would not love to race the SF90 on track. Again, the reviews of the SF90 on track are very positive and 90% of those buying the SF90 will never track it, so it is not a real world problem, if it actually was a problem.

 

I saw the weighing of that mentioned last year.

My thoughts:

II means it's on video, and he has no reason to lie. That said, I do have something that I won't mention here publically that does bring me pause. - if you're really interested, feel free to PM me.

***

@695 remember, folks here are lamenting hybrid technology - why stop at the SF90 being a slag, keep pulling at that thread -...keep going....going.... okay, the sweater is now gone. You've just declared that the La Ferrari is a pile of poo.

 

Which reviews are you referring to? The one lap a journalist ran or feedback from people who own these cars? You certainly don't seem to have any firsthand knowledge so probably best to not make such assumptions. Moreover, you have no idea what 90% of the people do with their cars because you probably don't know anyone with am SF90.

 

Talk about making assumptions I actually know three SF90 owners personally, all live within 3 miles of me. They have never been tracked, but they all three rate them highly.

Regarding reviews, which reviews have you seen that are bad?

 

Personal reviews, from actual owners cooking brakes after a couple laps and difficulty stopping and turning the car under speed. My personal experience tracking with SF90s. Straight line speed is very good, especially off the line but then performance drops off. For a day tripper it's fine, like a GT except no luggage space. It's a stepping stone, the tech needs to improve before I would consider one.