812 Replacement Rumors

I would comment that the Speciale belongs wherever the owner wishes to exercise it, and for me that is spirited country drives. The Speciale is the Olympic athlete-trained Italia, and I appreciate its tweaked fitness. I have no interest in the track.
If I were an avid track enthusiast I would trailer a track-specific car, like a Radical, to and from.

 

I have both the 812 GTS and Pista and honestly they do the same thing in totally different ways, one does feel more track focussed (no prizes for guessing) but when comparing the track times almost identical.

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I really can’t choose which one I like the best, totally different formulas delivering the same results in that magical Ferrari way.

My point is, for me the next V12 car needs to make that same Speciale to Pista leap, and take us right to the limit….does that need to be purely NA…? Preferably yes….but not at the expense of progress, for it to be special, the car will need that similar transition.


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Which one ?

 

The Fiorano lap times are not really accurate....
An F8/Pista would smoke an 812 on the majority of tracks.

 

Laferrari replacement

 

That's an interesting take - different strokes for different folks I'm the opposite way

I've tracked a Pista in Vegas (awesome experience), I came away feeling like I can drive the Speciale close to the limits far easier and safer than the more powerful more serious more spikey Pista to be fair

Pista has a lot of merits, even over Speciale, but noise and ability to drive close to the limit ironically are definitively in the Speciale camp for me

Instead of a big tech "upgrade" and power increase (Speciale->Pista, 120HP more and turbocharging)(812->replacement, big HP bump and turbo or hybrid system), I'd love to see Ferrari recognize the fallacy of pursuing more power (we are now north of 800hp, and at what expense) and instead pursue innovations in other arenas (like weight reduction, maybe new materials), keeping the glorious V12 as-is personally. Everyone knows the cars are getting heavier and more powerful, that seems to be the "easy" evolution given the industry trends but I'd like to see Ferrari buck the trend some way some how...I don't think we'd have people complaining to buy the 6.5L V12 in future designs with a warranty and your own spec

 

I hear you but I believe Ferrari will have a difficult time selling many front engine V12s. Based on the SF90 debacle that destroyed the 812SF order queue almost instantaneously and resulted in its premature discontinuation after only 3 model years (yes, a few, very few, made it to the 4th model year), will such a successor be well received? I think that debacle was to indicate that the model Ferrari designates as "top", will have a more favorable review..and sizable order queue. Even Ferrari, per their market day charts from June, indicates 'iconic' for the V12 models, a flat line for performance gains (meaning none).

Afterall, had its glacially slow development been any less developed Vigna was apparently ready to axe it. That is how 'serious' Ferrari is for the V12 successor.

Comments by @day355 indicate we will all be discussing its roof, if that is to indicate it will be topless, then, I am sure it will find many ready to order. If hard-top only with no back window and slightly increased power output, even with a front-hinged engine bonnet, well...I believe it will have limited appeal. Remembering it will be saddled (pun intended) with more choking and quiet exhaust throttling, cumbersome and distracting 'automated driving assistants', and a digital interior, the original 812SF may be the best experience of the standard V12 model line...

This post intended to push Ferrari to make a vastly superior car, preferably mid-rear engine V12 which would be a sold-out model for the next 10 years if they were to actually produce such!

 

167 will sell very well and almost everyone here will want one. Why ?
because the design of the 812 has always been controversial, and here we are on the opposite, with simplicity in modernity which has been so lacking, and which you have surely forgotten... Your eyes are used to something else, so we're going to talk a lot about it when it comes out.
It is a car that you will have to see in motion, in traffic to take into account what it releases.
The performance is already "too much" with the Competizione, so let the design and innovations make the difference and you can take your pick.
For the moment, the design is unanimous !

 

Is there a replacement ?

 

Do you like it ?

 

Once traction off the line is not an issue, the 812 is quite a bit quicker.

 

I haven't had a hard time keeping up with a Pista on the track in my 812.

Kinda crazy I can now order mid-engine Corvette with a 5.5l 670hp high RPM motor and no turbos but Ferrari doesn't offer such a car.

 

Does Porsche have to abide by EU regulations with the GT3, GT4, RS variants, boxer spyder and GTS 4.0? What about Lamborghini with the Huracan/Aventador and variants? And what about Ferrari with the 812, Purosangue, SP3 and other variants?

Admittedly, I do not plan on reading nor fully comprehending the implications of the EU regulations. But, all of the above mentioned cars are still in production today. Their immediate successors are all planned with NA engines as well.

Clearly, the EU regulations are not preventing manufacturers from making NA engines, at least for the immediate future.

My point is simple. Ferrari deliberately chose to enter the HP wars when they introduced the 488. I believe this direction was chosen in response to McLaren entering the game with their TTV8. The 296 does not exist in its current form entirely due to EU regulations and if they had continued development of the NA V8, it could still be in production today. In my eyes, Ferrari already has the SF90. This car represents the technological limits of what the company can achieve. The bleeding edge of innovation. The fastest accelerating regular production vehicle (this side of a plaid) on sale today. I love the SF90 and what it stands for. I give Ferrari an A+ for their efforts.

The 296, billed as “fun to drive,” did not need to push the hybrid envelope. The SF90 exists for this purpose. The 296 could have an NA V8 screaming at 10k rpm’s and it would go down as one of the all time greats. People wouldn’t complain that it’s too slow, just as people don’t complain about GT3’s or STO’s. Demand for the car would be insane, with secondary market values hundreds of thousands above msrp regardless of the planned production run. But unfortunately, that car will never exist.

Fortunately, they have decided to continue with the regular production V12 in the FUV and F167 as we are discussing in this thread. We must pray that even with new management, the old school powers that still remain will continue to value heritage and tradition. There is a world in which Ferrari can exist, simultaneously valuing what is core and essential to the motorcar experience while still positioning themselves on the forefront of technological innovation. It is not an either/or proposition and the EU regulations have not entirely tied their hands just yet.

 

Unanimous among who?

 

Porsche churns out hundreds of thousands of vehicles each year and their average CO2 is being amortised across the range, not to mention the EVs and all their turbo-hybrids. The next Huracan is said to be a V8TT though and certainly hybridised. Ferrari's and Lamborghini's N/A V12 production is very limited and we already know that the new Aventador will also be a hybrid.

 

Maybe…but I noted “faster” which meant around a track in a dynamic environment for my example. Admittedly, they are very close but we’re just talking about paper racing here. So faster is faster, not just in a narrow definition of quickness in a straight line, once traction off the line is not an issue, above a certain speed, in perfect conditions, with an expert driver, with multiple tries, fresh tires, and ideal test subjects just beset upon by factory technicians.

 

Any chance of a 'Gullwing' or similar, minimum must be scissor doors!

 

It really wouldn’t….and on public roads nothing in it


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Hah! Tangent, we had 2 car shows this Sunday … sorry for the OT
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Agree
Colin Chapman had it right… “add lightness”


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Agree as well about lightness
Pista vs 812 on the track -Pista wins - not even close
Pista vs 812 on the street- 812 wins- not even close
Pista vs 812 on a winding back road- the driver in each car wins - just in different ways
As for the 812 replacement- I doubt Chapman wins out here-my prediction is 3700+ lbs dry, 3900+ wet, 820hp NA only propulsion, Roma like design theme with a rear window and updated dash and interior.


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Do not expect miracles on weight, it's true.
But still ... shorter than an 812.
It's not a Roma, it's not an F 12 phase 3, it's a new car, and the only thing in common is maybe the door handles.
We'll talk about this car later.

 

They care as much about tradition as about the brand of peanuts as an aperitif!
They seriously think everyone is looking forward to electric Ferraris, and Vigna is here for it.
All the investment goes there... so your V 8 NA at 10,000 rpm will never see the light of day.
They are completely out of touch with fan expectations, and even out of touch at all.
So yes, the 167 is the last one for us.
The 296 is for consumers of novelty.
Personally, special mention for the Roma spider which does more than the job !

 

Do you really think so? We own the last mid 12 cylinder production car they made, in fact just did a 1,600 mile two-day road trip in it. It’s a great car but the reasons they moved away are very clear. Packaging is a problem and the back end gets super long if you want an in-line transmission. They don’t make a flat engine so the Testarossa layout is not an option. A mid-12 is just not feasible anymore without Lamborghini-style packaging which Ferrari customers wouldn’t go for in big numbers. Mid 12’s are best left to the super-exclusive carbon hyper cars or Iconas.

 

Most of the talk is about design, no mention of sound. i take it will sound like the 812C which is a disappointment