F12 Improving the Handling

While lowering the car 20mm may help, when comparing the F12 to the TdF keep in mind that the TDF has all rear wheel " steering " that the F12 does not.
which absolutely changes the handling characteristics.

GL in your search!

S

 

I believe that if you fit 812/TdF wheels with the 812/TdF tyres then the wider front tyres will give you more ‘bite’ at the front.

 

This may just be the car. I used to not like it so much because it felt like the steering did not match the personality of the car. Like why would you have such light steering in a GT car? It didn't make any sense to me. Then I started tracking it. I am not sure if it possible to have more fun on track than with a F12 cranked to 11. I mean I was red line shifting, fully lit on the corners, flat balls to the wall driving. The steering set up made a TON more sense after that. It took me a while but I have learned to love the F12 for what it is flaws and all.

 

Were you driving the F12 in sport or race mode? Big difference in the "floatiness". Race mode tightens/stiffens everything up.

 

FYI F12 is mid engine not front engine. Its actually 48% of weight in front and 52% in back. The 458 is 46% in front and 54% in back. So the F12 is more balanced than the 458. I'm partial to the 458 but can help but love the character of the F12.

 

You’re a much better driver than me. A F12 doesn’t start waking up until 125. I’m not going there drive that fast on public roads.


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Setting up the F12 is straight forward. Get to know an experienced suspension shop. Swap springs for Novitec and get the height down right. Spacers to get geometry back. Four wheel balance then get the calibration done. You will need a couple of rounds of adjustments. It will come out near perfection with no float. This is something you cannot achieve asking on a chat board (although one member here can get you close). Better to ask for a suspension shop familiar with the car (best case) that is associated with an active race team. Ask dealer first. Avoid just adding massive width to front end.

 

I believe some here have run front TDF wheels and tires on a regular F12 with some additional modifications to get more tire up front. You can also reduce the rear tire size if you want more front bite in relation to the rear. Most will not recommend this approach, but it is possible. Trail braking will also help front end bite if you are not already doing that. The steering is an acquired taste, cannot be changed easily (I personally love it). However, it will never behave like a rear mid or rear engine vehicle. It is also heavier than those options.

 

This is exactly the answer. Could not agree more. Did this with SE30. Takes some time and adjusting but you can dial it in to your liking.

 

I will give you my experience with my F 12.
Lots of thoughts on the best set-up to get, then action.
In fact the starting point lay in the front and rear anti-roll bars of the F 12 which have exactly the same diameters front and rear as those of the TDF, the part numbers are identical.
From then on, I installed the springs of the TDF 30% stiffer, the ride height at the minimum factory limit of the TDF.
Afterwards, I spent time to understand what could be the geometry that could suit me.
To make the steering wheel feel heavier, you have to work on the values of the "caster" angle. Lots of 4-wheel camber and rear toe.
The front remains in neutral, because by opening further, it did not work because the direction of the F 12 being very incisive at the origin, the front returned too quickly to the rope.
I added the 4 optional OZ wheels to the genuine catalog and the titanium nuts.
In the end, I can't hope for better, the car has incredible balance and takes very strong downforce.
No braces, especially not, because if your geometry is good after your ride height, your wheels come back flush with the fenders.
Stay the tires question. I am in S4S but not completely satisfied, even if the grip is excellent and the temperature rise is quick.

 

are you all stock? what setup do you run? It gets pretty dicey for me to max out the 4th gear in the F12. The front feels pretty floaty as I max the rpm in the 4th gear. I'm at stock height on stock wheels now. I love the practicality, but my Novitec with 21/22 wheels felt like an arrow. When I put it on the alignment machine it had "excessive" camber (when it felt lot better) from previous owner not taking out the camber shims when lowering the car with the Novitec springs. I was thinking of adding another camber shim to see if it would help. but am curious whether there are remedies for the stock setup for eliminating the front vagueness. I just don't like low cars anymore. It didn't take elevation changes too well on my favorite roads especially with our front end sticking out a mile.

 

I know absolutely what you're talking about. Tracked my F12 but did not modify it- bought an 812 instead! I did modify my 812 after tracking it, all of which applies to the F12.

Absolutely you need the stiffer springs, loosens up the rear rather nicely and dials out any hint of understeer, eliminates roll and dive. I also lowered my 812 by 1.25" all around. Geometry is a must.

I cannot comment on wheels/spacers and offset. You may have to roll fenders.

FYI.................... https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f12tdf-wheel-options.511682/

But if you go TDF sizes I'd also recommend the Corsa PZC4 tires as well. They handle heat much better than the OEMs. One can bleed those once and they'll get up to pressure & maintain that throughout the entire day and then use the tire temp sensors as guides without worry. The OEMs required bleeding & re-bleeding not only throughout the day but even some times during a session.

I did not need a lifter for my F12, didn't put one on my 812 either- only you will know that.

Perhaps someone else can help you with this, I recall reading somewhere in this sub forum that the suspension lifter comes with softer front springs. Again, I can't remember if it was F12, 812 SF or 812 GTS.

Monitor brake pads if you track hard. Pads will last a lifetime for norma street use, but only a weekend if pushed hard ($6K). Nothing like putting a new set of pads on and showing up at the dealership a few days later for the same thing.

Good luck. The F12 was one of my most cherished cars.

ps
Holy **** Batman, since when have they made Cup 2s for the 812!?!?!?

 

Yes, it was me who wrote it , the springs of cars with lift are 10% more flexible than without lift.

 

Track wideners are to be avoided from a mechanical point of view, because they push the weight to the ends of the axles which are not intended for them.
Not to mention that you put an additional filter.
When the ride height is lowered, the geometry must be adjusted, because there is interdependence between the two.
Do not forget that a ride height, whether lowered or not, must imperatively maintain a dip of 20 mm between the front and the rear, in order to optimize preloads, stability under braking, and traction under acceleration.
A spring, whatever its rigidity, must be able to work in compression and in rebound in an optimal way in dynamics .

 

Anyone wanting a little more resistance behind the wheel should work on the caster angle adjustment.
The F 12 has very incisive steering that also hides the inertia due to the weight, I think that a little more resistance to the steering wheel when steering allows you to really feel its front axle. That's what I did, and it's really nicer than originally.

 

Several explanations:
- Your ride height is not good and does not respect 20 mm of dip between the front and the rear, and therefore, even if your geometry figures are ok, they automatically become distorted. Never forget that a bad ride height with geometry numbers in the green is misleading because they are actually in the red !!!
- Your geometry is not correct
- Your tire pressure is not good
Maybe all 3 together ?

 

You are one of the few to use your 812 as it should, Congratulations, really !!!