Some issues (electrical?) | FerrariChat

Some issues (electrical?)

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by mondialqves, Oct 3, 2022.

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  1. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    Hi All,
    Greetings from Spain
    After changing the belts (without touching anything else), I have started to have some issues, hope someone can help.
    Before starting, I have checked the plug wires (nearly new), changed the plugs, and checked the coils (both work). All working,
    1- When I turn the key to contact (1st stop of the key), the fuel pump starts working and never stops, I do not know if this is normal.
    2. I continue turning the key to start the engine, car starts, but it seems like a cylinder or one side is not working, even accelerating there is a failure somewhere. After 3 or 4 minutes, car stops.

    I suppose these are electrical failures. Can anyone help please?

    3. Engine and trunk locks stop working too, The engine one open but stay open, there is no return on the lock so not possible to lock it again unless moving it manually.

    (Sorry about my English)
     
  2. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,372
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    Did you put the safety switch back on the fuel distributor ?
     
  3. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    All connected yes.
    May be electrical?
     
  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Get a spark plug tester and check the wires, very cheap piece of equipment
    Or start engine from cold, try 30 seconds running, switch off and feel exhaust for heat
     
  5. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    Did that. All working.
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    When the engine is running, check that both coil packs are same temperature on your hands. When a coil failed on mine, it was fine starting up but the insulation broke down as it was running and it got hotter than the good one
     
  7. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    I will today, but I took both coils to a specialist and they ve tested them and Ok.
     
  8. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Yes if cold.
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,148
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Definitely not normal for a Mondial QV (if that's the F model that you have), and if you that know there are no wiring modifications. You can also investigate the safety switch operation in the other direction. With the key "on", engine not running, and the fuel pump wrongly running as you report, unplug the safety switch:

    If the fuel pump stops running = check things like the airflow metering plate is properly returning to the rest position and the airflow metering plate (and, therefore, fuel distributor plunger) moves smoothly and easily (when there is no fuel pressure in the system).

    If the fuel pump keeps running = bad sign for the fuse-relay panel itself (or the relay controlling the fuel pump relay).
     
  10. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    Than you Steve.
    As my first question....key "on", engine not running, fuel pump should be working or not? Cause mine keeps running....

    For the rest, I will do the checking this evening and inform properly.
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,148
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    The fuel pump should not run in those conditions. The fuel pump on the K-Jet/KE-Jet models should only run when the starter motor is cranking or the engine is actually running (key "on" and is drawing in air -- i.e., key "on" and the airflow metering plate is deflected so the safety switch in open). However, sometimes Owners unplug the safety switch, or make other wiring modifications, to run the fuel pump with just the key "on" and the engine not running -- as the (wrong) "fix" for not restarting well when the engine is warm.
     
  12. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    Update:
    Last night, connected the battery, turn key on (engine not running), fuel pump was running. So I disconnected the safety switch, turn off the key and waited 3 minutes. Connected the safety switch and then again key "on" position (engine not running), and voilà! fuel pump stopped working!.
    The, I have checked the airflow metering plate and is properly returning to the rest position and it moves smoothly. When I push it, the fuel pump starts working.

    So, if you agree, I think it is an electrical issue that I have. What do you think?
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,148
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Yes, could be as simple as a bad connection at the safety switch connector (that you have now improved by unplugging/replugging/wiggling) or an intermittent contact of the airflow plate arm to ground when in the rest position against the rest pin. However, something like a intermittent short on the fuse-relay panel PCBA could give the same symptom. You'll just have to keep monitoring the behavior as you can't investigate a problem very well when it isn't there ;).
     
  14. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    Tks! Didn't turn on the car last night, will try today. See how it goes. If it keeps failing then must be sth else.
     
  15. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,215
    Hong Kong
    No, it's not.
     
  16. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    So...tried the car last night: started correctly, firs couple of minutes (cold) felt like it was failing only a little bit but then, when hot, it was running like a violin, perfectly. So what do you think it could be in cold failing?
    Also, can someone help with the locks?:
    Engine and trunk locks stop working too, The engine one open but stays open, there is no return on the lock so not possible to lock it again unless moving it manually.
     
  17. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Pull the lock solenoids out and clean them up, i seem to recall they energize to open, so probably a bit rusted or a broken spring inside.
    Some fuel injector cleaner in the tank would be a good start
     
  18. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,215
    Hong Kong
    Spray WD40 into the locks and free them up.

    The solenoids don't have springs inside.
    The only pull, and get reset by the lock spring on the car.
     
  19. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,215
    Hong Kong
  20. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,372
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    Ya, he should move them a bit by hand...
     
  21. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    I am moving them all the time cause if not the trunk does not close. Used WD40 too but without luck...
     
  22. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,215
    Hong Kong
    They might be full of old hard grease?
    Remove the locks, soak them in degreaser/paint thinner overnight and blow them out with an air gun. They need to snap open when you release them. It's simple mechanical part. Unless someone hit them with a hammer they will never break down...
     
  23. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    They are very clean. Car is pristine.
    I will follow your advise tonight.
    I may have one switch not working...
     
  24. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,215
    Hong Kong
    The locks must work independently from the switches and solenoids too, via the emergency pull cables.
     
  25. mondialqves

    mondialqves Karting

    Dec 27, 2015
    176
    Barcelona, Spain
    Correct, I am using the pull cable in one, the other one opens with the switch but not possible to close it, cause it the lock remains open
     

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