40% SHARE AVAILABLE !! ON A BEAUTIFUL 604 CHALLENGER

For anyone that might consider this (or any aircraft), make sure you clearly understand the Direct Operating Costs of hourly and monthly charges. The acquisition cost is the tip of the iceberg in operating the aircraft.

 

I question 40%. Most people with this kind of dough are control freaks. They don't like not having control.

 

Net Jets and Flight Options have certainly found lots and lots of people that this not an issue. If the other partner is knowledgeable in aircraft ownership operation then being an inexperienced partner this can be a good solution.

 

Problem is making decisions. The 60% owner has the golden rule - he who has the gold rules. It would be better if you have five 20% owners.

 

I’m still reeling from the “$1M avionics upgrade…”

 

Get used to those kinds of numbers with this class of aircraft.

Single ownership of such an aircraft is going to be at least $2 mil a year in operating costs; no capital cost included. 2 pilots, 1 flight attendant, possibly 1 mechanic, hangar rent, flight department office at hangar facility, hull insurance, liability insurance - all before you light up the engines.

 

Please do not interpret my comments as negative against this aircraft or the offering. My points are about anyone that might be interested needs to make sure they properly understand what they would be getting into with this or any other larger sized aircraft with anyone. Until one is in this world they have little clue what all is involved to own and then operate a flight operation. That I listed a shortened list of the infrastructure needed, and that you have, is showing what has to be in place to even start to make an aircraft able to be used.

The comment about 5 partners at 20% can lead to problems. Too many wanting the same aircraft at the same time. Requiring a consensus on decisions without a clear leader. 60/40 ownership does put someone in charge and as long as their is agreement on the philosophy of operation the minority partner can just use the aircraft worry free by paying his money. Some years back I had a long conversation with a Net Jets fractional owner (had a G-IV and Citation X) - he knew he was overpaying Net Jets but valued the convenience of nothing was his issue except making the phone call to arrange his flight. I did not see him again when he got to the end of the term where the residual values for Net Jets aircraft are well below normal market - 1,000+ hours per year versus typical 300-400.

 

From a financial point of view, the mechanic is the one person I would consider essential on that list.

 

Depends upon the mechanic. Most are fantastic and easily pay for themselves. But I remember one that I had to explain how to read a Gulfstream maintenance status report - and he had worked for Gulfstream-Savannah; he did not last long.

 

I amend my statement to read "a good mechanic"...

 

But if you own a minority interest and somebody else owns the majority interest, you're screwed. The only way to make this work is major decisions have to require a unanimous vote.

 

I would expect the buyer this 40% would be someone in need of a unplanned tax write off and at the same time in need of access to wholesale use of the aircraft…..i would hope the buyer would do his due diligence if not well …he should not do it…

 

If it has to be unanimous, might as well be 50/50 then. Which is why I questioned the whole idea of "40%"-- like where does that number even come from?

 

Whether 60/40 or 51/49 I am in favor of someone having the ability to make the necessary decisions. There also needs to be a mechanism on who gets first rights to use of the aircraft when there is a conflict. One would hope that in any such arrangement (not just this one) that the majority owner is well versed in owning and operating this class of aircraft so that they are in tune with the topics of maintenance, avionics mandates, crew evaluations, and operational issues. Good communication will be important and a clear understanding from the beginning between the partners will be critical. Is the intent that the aircraft does a level of charter and to what extent? Alternatively it could be strictly for the 2 partners so that there is no extra accumulation of hours & cycles and there is less wear & tear?

 

Question: For the 100% depreciation, does that mean that aircraft was acquired last year and the current owner is ascribing the new partner that related portion of the depreciation to them? Starting January 1 of this year the accelerated depreciation is no longer 100%.

 

We on the floor never used, AND WERE NOT TRAINED IN: MMEL, MOPP, FAA Policy letters, AFM that operators live in.

CMPs are handed to you. Parts of the AMM, Wire Diagram manual an standard wiring practices manual are referenced.

CATIA is used a lot.

We did what we are told with what we are given, and were not aware of the docs and regs that drove the work in the background for the most part.

As yall may recall I did 22+ years at GAC Savannah in Flight Test and R&D.

Been teaching G500/G600 MX Initials at Flight Safety for a little over a year.

Techs and managers on the floor are NOT TRAINED in how to manage and operate a flight department.

Gulfstream has folks siloed to do the same tasks over and over quickly and to a high standard of quality.

I was laid off and am not a fan boi of GAC or General Dynamics. But I also do not fault the way they build the aircraft.

But until i became a certified MX Instructor I had no idea or TRAINING in how complex it is to SAFELY run aircraft as an operator / owner.

I worked: Production, Service Center, Outside OPS , Service Center / Green Stripe / Gov / Military aircraft, Flight Test and Engineering Test Labs / Iron Birds.


Not meant as a knock to Jeff, but do not expect folks on the floor to have that knowledge or training.

PlaneConnect, top of decent reports and AHTMU data dumps are not things folks on the floor are told about with out need.

 

I

My issue with the one person we had as our mechanic for a G-IV was how he came from the service center side of the Savannah operation but was unable to understand how to read a due maintenance report as run by Gulfstream. What checks are coming up when over the next 12 months or so.

This is not a hit on Gulfstream as I dealt with some great people at the service centers.

 

Yes sir. Only folks upstairs in Tech Ops deal with CMP Due lists and A check / C check schedules. Folks on the floor are not trained in it. Most folks are having to learn how to use the new MyCMP diagnostics tool as there is no Fault Isolation Manual anymore.

The federated database does all the work based on the quality of the answers to the questions.