Google 3M in Australia. There must be something there. Amazon? There has to be something there...
You would think so, but I simply cannot find any local sources. I don't want to risk using anything else. 3M has a fairly big presence here, but... Anyway, I've just found a source in Penang (Malaysia). Hopefully their mailing system has less prohibitive restrictions. The US sources gave no indication that they couldn't ship it overseas. I noted on one US site... "Not available on Catalina Island". Is it really so volatile and cannot be shipped other than by road... or does Catalina have environmental reasons for it not being sold there? Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I was about to give up.
As mentioned in the other message thread, I found a source of 3M glue in Penang, Malaysia. I decided to glue canvas to the front bar with the roof completely off the car. I can't see why I can't do it this way, and so far, it seems to be turning out really well (knock on wood) Another tip: The instructions on the tube of glue recommends using MEK solvent to clean up. I didn't think I'd be able to buy any as it is highly toxic. However, it is available as "Plumbers Priming Fluid" (for PVC pipes). The only problem I've had recently was with window rail gluing cycles, particularly step 3. The screws are rather long and you have to somehow pull the fabric up and over them. I had to elongate the holes in the fabric to accomplish this. I've been using a leather punch to create the holes (with a solid steel block under the fabric). Anyway, for others considering this job, there are so many good tips in these two message threads, it's very hard to go wrong. You just have to expect this job to take several weeks, especially if you haven't assembled all the tools and materials beforehand.
hello everyone, I like to replace the seals inside the primary and secondary shocks. I believe Mercedes uses the same parts as Ferrari on their convertible models. any suggestion where I can find the seals?
I haven't heard of anyone replacing their own seals. Usually, this task is given to folks like TopHydraulics https://www.tophydraulics.com/82-ferrari-355-f355-spider
I don't think is that complicated, removing the C clip pulling the piston and changing the O rings, I had much more difficult complicated task in the past than this. I looked up last night on Amazon and found Mercedes seal kit. I was hoping someone has done this before. otherwise I will challenge the task of looking for the right size O rings.
Hi, hoping Watson can chime in on a problem I’m having that seems related to this post. Last autumn my spider roof was not going up properly. I decided the hydraulics were too much of a job for me to tackle. So I called in a repair shop. They repaired/replaced two of the hydraulics, using a company that rebuilds them. Now, when I go to raise the top, the forks miss those pins. I can guide them on and make everything work, but it requires two people etc. The rubber of the top (strong weather stripping) is also rubbing against the side of the door, which is mentioned in this thread, and this did not happen before this work on the top/hydraulics. The above leads me to suspect that my top has been “flattened” somewhat, for want of a better word, during the repair. And I need to bend the frame a bit to get everything aligned. Watson, when you say you bent your top, can you describe that process? Did you have a strong person on each side? Pushing gently toward each other? Or ratcheting tie downs? Do you remember which of the crossbars you concentrated on? When you say you used a grid. Did you print out a grid on transparency paper and use that somehow?
So you didn't have a serious aligment issue before the cylinders were overhauled? My roof was working fine, then after a period of inactivity, one of the forks didn't engage, so your problem may not necessarily be an alignment issue. It could still be fluid related. Did you bleed the system yourself?
No. The roof has always worked well. With no alignment issues. The shop that did the hydraulic replacement bled the system. At the end of last season, the roof was not wanting to go up. First time I had seen that. For the first time, I used the emergency switch, to get it closed up, and after reading a number of threads here, felt I was probably dealing with old fluid.
If the emergency switch operated the roof normally, then why did you think it was a hydraulic problem? The emergency switch operates (at least) the primary hydraulic actuators. Where was the roof stopping during the up cycle? Only during the last stages of closing? Which two actuators did you have refurbished?
The roof was in the down position and would not rise from that position. When I used the emergency switch, it did rise and close. As nothing had changed, in the time since I last operated the roof, I suspected that the fluid was the culprit. I then brought it to a shop, they found that at least one of the secondary hydraulic actuators was weeping fluid. And they decided that rebuild of those secondary actuators was required. Now the roof seems to lower and rise well enough, but the forks are not engaging with those pins-and so the roof will not close-without manual help as mentioned above. I can check the fluid level, or see if it needs another bleed. But the shop said they did quite a bit of that. And as I said, I notice the roof rubber rubbing against the door, which it never did before-suggesting something has changed in the roof geometry. Of course I was not happy getting the car/roof back working like it is now. But after a couple months in the shop. They obviously had no idea how to proceed.
The secondary hydraulic actuators shouldn't even have been in operation for the first part of roof closure. The "F1" solenoid valve should have been closed (see below). This applies to both normal and emergency operation. The diagram below shows the roof fully open. Image Unavailable, Please Login When closing the roof (initially) The fluid from pump "M" is pumped into the bottom of the LH primary actuator (green anticlockwise path). When the piston moves (upwards in the diagram), it displaces fluid from the top of the LH primary piston (purple) into the bottom RH Primary Acuator. Fluid in the top of the RH primary actuator is pushed back to the motor as the RH piston rises (blue path). The "F1" valve which feeds the secondary actuators should be closed during initial roof closure. What I don't understand is why you got no movement. Even if the F1 was falsely commanded open by the Roof ECU (using the normal roof switch), diverting the fluid to the secondary pistons, instead of the primary pistons, you should have seen the secondary pistons move... unless the leak was so bad in the secondary pistons, that all the fluid was returned to the reservoir through faulty seals. The only way that the F1 valve would be falsely commanded open is if there was something wrong with the internal switches (S2 and S4) in the primary actuators. I haven't yet completely figured out why the hooks don't engage. It seems to be related to the freedom of movement of the primary actuators. If they are too slow to retract, the sequence is messed up. I can only surmise that you have/had multiple problems with your roof. I would suggest as part of the faultfinding process to disconnect the plug on the F1 solenoid valve to make sure that isn't interfering with the normal closing sequence. Unfortunately, if the F1 valve is physically jamming in the open position, it might lead to a wrong diagnosis.
If the top didn't work with the regular switch, but did work with the emergency, it's not the fluid or rams. All the emergency switch does is bypass the ECU and power the pump directly. If the fluid was very low or hydraulic rams had failed, the system's behavior would be unchanged from what you initially tried. I would be curious what lead them to rebuild the hydraulic rams. It sounds like the shop missed something on the alignment in the end. If the forks aligned before the top hydraulics were removed and now the forks are misaligned on raising, the top alignment was most likely moved during the process. Did they bend the frame working on the system and the testing of it? What I described earlier of having that second bow not flop back and jamming the frame is not hard to do. Continuing to run the pump pulls very hard on the frame. Let me quickly add, I am still not 100% certain that's what causes the misalignment on all cars, but it did in my car and a couple others i have seen. I also noticed cars with top misalignment issues have a cut in the leather on the door trim. Usually on just one side. Small cut on the very top rear of the door panel leather trim.
Ok, thank you both for your responses. The top did not rise normally with the switch in the center console I have used for years-but if I recall, it did try, meaning there was movement, but it did not rise more than a couple inches. So I decided to use the emergency switch-which I had never tried before. And the top then worked. After that, the shop made the determination that the actuators needed replacement, at least partially because one was leaking, and this is where I am now. The work was completed at the end of winter. With the report that the forks were not engaging. I drove the car home and somewhat put it to bed for some months. Yesterday was my first test of the system. I will digest both of your responses and have another look at the car. I for sure do not want to continue to run the top up and down with it making contact with the doors on both sides, as it is doing now-which like you say, probably leads to the cut in the leather in the door trim.
Have you thought about the manual conversion? I did it and it makes life heaps easier Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
That kinda fits in with my theory about the F1 solenoid valve (in combination with your leaky seals). If it's being actuated at the wrong time or is stuck in the wrong position, fluid may be being directed into the wrong places. The problem is, though, there would have to be an electrical fault in both primary actuators for this to happen... or the F1 solenoid valve would have to be physically jammed open (or perhaps partially jammed open). This is pure diagrammatic theory though. I don't know if it's physically possible for the solenoid valve to get stuck.
I have thought about it. The top has always worked pretty well (I had to do the center bar push up routine)-but otherwise worked pretty well. I appreciate the suggestion though. The idea behind the fluid flush and the rebuilt hydraulics was that I would be back to new? But this whole system has been a headache since early days-just the constant worry that it will not work. All this complexity but you still have to manually unlatch and move the roof back a bit? Really dumb. I would rather a manual system. I feel the hydraulics are all doing what they are supposed to do. I worked on the car for about an hour today. Mostly cycling the roof up and down using the emergency switch. I think Watson is correct, that I have some problems with the alignment of the top. Today I spoke to the mechanic who did the work. To remember what the original symptoms were etc. The passenger side primary ram/hydraulic cyclinder was leaking. The top worked but slowly. Shop removed and rebuilt the primary rams-so I told you guys the wrong thing before, I told you that we replaced the secondary rams. Shop replaced fluid and bled. Today, car engine running, e-brake on, windows down, seats forward, released the roof latch, doors closed moved the roof back manually until I got the beep. A new problem is that now I am getting a beeping and the central switch that controls the roof will not do anything. That was not happening yesterday. Nor has it happened in the past. But today it was beeping and I decided to just use the emergency switch. A side point is that last season I replaced a switch that allows the windows to work correctly when the roof is down, and everything was great, but now the windows will not work with the top down. I then push up on one of the roof bars and the roof goes down normally with the emergency switch. When I try to have the roof go up, the passenger side fork engages fine, but the driver’s side fork does not engage with the pin. I can make the driver’s side fork engage with the pin, if at the correct point in the sequence I grab the middle of the roof and gently rock it upward and forward. Update/my problems. 1. The driver’s side fork is not aligning with the pin, and I have to move the roof upward and forward a bit to get it to rock into the correct position-where I can then get the roof to go up. 2. Once the roof is mostly up, the forward third of the roof, does not move forward as far as it should. If I and a helper push on the outside of the roof, on the side, the secondary rams push the roof forward to the correct position. 3. The central switch that has always done a good job of operating the top, will not do anything, and the car just beeps, I have to use the emergency roof switch. 4. The windows, that should work in the roof down position, and were working, no longer work.
Thanks for the update. Still puzzling, though, why leaking primary cylinders allowed the roof to come up using the bypass switch (originally), but not with the roof switch. So the ECU is not happy with the switch logic. Did the windows go down when you unlatched the roof (and stopped 2" down?). I think the window switches are ok if the windows stop moving. Doors properly closed? Did the beeping start immediately after you pulled the roof back and pulled on the roof switch? The windows not operating with the roof fully down suggests the primary rams aren't fully extending (activating the microswitch at the bottom of the LH primary ram slider). Are all the folds in the roof folding properly? I noticed on mine recently that even though I pushed up on the bar, my roof was still not folding neatly. Mine is doing almost the same thing (except the right hand hook is not engaging). I think I either forced the roof manually and bent the frame or I have a hydraulic issue (I did at one point let the fluid get fairly low).
3 & 4 sound like microswitch issues. They could be caused by # 1. I would start by troubleshooting microswitch 64416800 from parts table 115...and then attempt to realign the frame to ensure proper engagement of the switch. Easier said than done.
The fork alignment is consistent with a problem I had. The manual conversion takes that out of the equation altogether. Now I can operate my top as quickly as I can get the seat backs forward. I did need to cut the wires the run to the rams unfortunately as the nuts that mate them to the ram are too tiny and torqued too hard to remove with pliers. If I wish to return to stock that should be easy enough to rectify Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
This is a frightening thread for spyder owners like me who, though their tops work now, hear the ticking time bomb of future failure. I have no skills or inclination to mess with a broken top. My dealer says they won't work on them. Is there anyplace we can send our broken top cars for reliable repair? Who can we turn to?
The Manual Conversion is popular for F1 Cars and for me the Manual Conversion of the Spider Top is what I would consider if I had a Spider and it started acting up. One of my favorite Ferrari Service Shops that works especially on older models has a few Spiders in his shop, all for Roof issues so I hear you loud and clear. But there are many posts on here that state if you maintain the Top mechanisms it will work, so I would have it checked/maintained yearly and hope that take care of it. But I would have no problem buying a Spider that has had its Top converted to a Manual Operation in case that data point matters.
I think you or another person reminded us where the thread is on how to convert the Spider Operation to Manual, if it was you please re-share it here to make it easier to find.
The most useful reference that helped for me was this video: Hardest part by far is getting the nut that holds the pin that the fork engages off. 2 17mm wrenches were needed to make it possible Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
