Maserati 4.9 V8 Engine

There's very good document prepared by the late Stan Bishop a member at the time of MOCNA which was based in the LA area. Ivan Ruiz says he has a copy of it on his website https://thecarnut.com/.
I suggest that you get a copy of that. Also, don't expect modern CCNC accuracy from these cams. The lobes are not identical from one to another unless they've been reworked by modern machinery.
Have a look at that document and when you're familiar with come back and ask your questions. Myself, I haven't read it for 30 years or done the cam alignment either.

 

Thanks Bob. I have read Stan's article many times looking for the specific issue that I am encountering. The chains which are already tensioned are however sufficient to rotate the exhaust gear on the right head and the intake on the left head because they each have the slack side of their chains respectively and are thus free to move. This 'backlash' in the mechanism has not been mentioned in any of the manuals or articles that I have read. It seems as if there needs to be a way for locking the cam gear in place to maintain the chain tension such that the cam position can be set as opposed to the current situation where the cam setting can be wherever you want but is never correct once the slack in the chain is taken up.

 

It's been far too long since I did mine for me to offer tips on this but mine was a USA car and when I went to change the timing to Euro spec it already was properly timed. One thing I can tell you is when do loosen that retaining washer to switch holes be very, very careful that you do not have a cam on the "knifes edge" of the lobe because it can snap violently and dislodge your tool which will send a wave along the chain and cause the chain to jump a tooth.

Now the problem of securing everything so that you can get settings just so is one I ran across with my 4 cam belt driven 2.0L engine in my Ghibli Open Cup engine. A substitute for the bearing cap, don't use the real one as it may snap, with enough shim material under it should lock the cam in place.

 

I'd like to restart the discussion about the 4.9 crankshaft. I believe we can all agree that information provided by an engine builder of one of the twelve (in the world) Maserati Classiche restoration shops is reliable information.
I spoke with the engine builder at one of the Classiche Masters. He has rebuilt many 4.9 engines. He stated that he has never seen a cracked crankshaft that was not caused by abuse or inadequate oil changes. He firmly stated that there is nothing inherently wrong with the 4.9 crankshaft. The hidden problem is the dry sump oil tank that rusts internally thereby contaminating the oil that is supplied to the engine. This is a potential problem for all Maserati 4.7 and 4.9 engines.
The solution the engine builder uses is to have his fabrication shop make an aluminum oil tank. Problem solved.

 

Interesting info.
If confirmed, that would mean the weakness of the 4.9 crankshaft (or cranksfat oiling) would exist only on dry sump 4.9 engines, Ghibli and Khamsin.
Indy and Bora would be exempt of it.

 

What's your goal with your engine, stock or higher performance? BTW I wouldn't bet the farm on your assumptions that Maserati Classiche are the best technical repositories about the historical issues of the V8 crankshafts. They have an inherent bias towards blaming owners and ignoring production quality issues during difficult times for Maserati. The stories related to this problem which I heard about in the late 1980s and 1990s were associated with trying to improve the output of the engines. So if your goal is stock power levels you may not have any issues anyway. Not withstanding that point an aluminum or SS tank is a good idea.

 

The oil tank has inherent design problems and tends to clog. The cure is to make a new tank in the original shape and size but with modern internals, including a swirl pot to allow air bubbles to escape from the return oil flow. Also, no screens that can clog. If a new tank is not in the budget, at least poke out the screens in the original tank and wash it out thoroughly.

 

Regarding Khamsin (hence 4.9) crankshaft failures, after exactly 19 years of Khamsin Registry data gathering I have only heard of a small handful of them in Germany on the autobahn decades ago.

I did however notice last year that there is a quite large number of Boras in Europe that no longer have their original engines. They were replaced after the original went boom and were not repairable.

Euro cars (i.e. 4.7 for the most part as the 4.9 Euro version is very rare) but also US Boras (hence 4.9) re-imported to Europe. I think this is due to two factors; Boras were typically pushed harder than Khamsins at least in Europe and at SUSTAINED speeds during autoroute, autostrada or autobahn travel. Also the ventilation of the engine compartment is less than ideal so the heat build up, particularly if the car still has the US headers, would be quite drastic and sustained high speeds could easily have catastrophic results.

I know the water temp in my US Khamsin (which still had its US headers) would rise very quickly when I went for my short Everglades top speed runs.
Likewise a German engineer I met at the 2009 Nurburgring Oldtimer GP, very knowledgeable on K's went on an Autobahn with a young owner and his US automatic (so with US headers, low US diff ratio AND short automatic gears) and they soon had to slow down due to water temps that rose alarmingly. Of course a US automatic is almost 50kph slower than an Euro 5 speed.

So that, along with what Wil describes in the post above, a very interesting one by the way, is an issue.

In contrast when I did 900kms with Khamsin 096 in June I drove at 200kph/125mph for a short while on the last day. This was 2 days after my K50 event ended, on the way home on a very hot day and the temps stayed reasonable. Euro car with longer diff ratio and no US headers.

Khamsin 1262 near Paris is getting a Euro diff ratio as we speak...

 

My information on the 4.9 crankshaft came from one of the twelve world wide Classiche Masters NOT from Maserati Classiche. Maserati Classiche does NOT rebuild engines. Unlike facilities like Aston Martin Works, Maserati Classiche's mission is to assist owners and restoration shops in the preservation of classic Maseratis. Aston Martin Works is in competition with independent restoration specialists. The engine builder I spoke with has no inherent bias to owners at all. He is simply stating a fact regarding the myth surrounding the 4.9 crankshaft. Replacement of the oil tank is essential with a more modern design as previously stated. My intent is to rebuild my engine to stock.
Final thought on this subject..... I simply do not understand the obsession some people have with spreading the myth that the 4.9 crankshaft is a POS.

 

The factory figured out some of this. Late Ghibli's do not have screens in their oil tanks.

 

I think stems from the attempts to get a lot more HP from the V8 via turbo charging and higher revs by shops in the time frame I mentioned. I have no idea who the Maserati Classiche Masters you reference are if they have nothing to do with Maserati Classiche. Sorry for the confusion, perhaps you could provide more information about this organization? In any event since you're staying stock I don't think you'll have any problems.

I ran my Bora, which is in stock European trim many times in Nevada on the infamous highway 50 for over an hour at speeds of 125-140 MPHwhich comes at red line in my car. No crank or engine damage from that. Other issues with CV boots GAWD yes!

 

Maserati Classiche is the factory department that assists restorers of classic Maseratis and undertakes the inspection of a candidate for awarding a Certificate of Authenticity. Classiche Master is a designation assigned to expert Maserati restoration shops. The Classiche Master I spoke with did a restoration for the Maserati factory museum. While I have no plans to ship my restored car to Italy for inspection, I plan on making my car eligible for consideration as a Certificate of Authenticity candidate. Maserati Classiche hopes to expand to NA for these inspections in the future. Here are links to more information:
https://www.classichemasters.com/workshops-listing
https://www.maserati.com/global/en/news/maserati-certification-of-authenticity-the-new-maserati-classiche-programme-begins

 

Bob; you seem to have missed this thread -link below- three years ago: you will find the answers in it.

FYI Classiche Masters is a Belgian organisation, not to be confused with Maserati Classiche, though they collaborate.

The multi stage process started with the book, which they hired me to do, during 2019. It was not my idea, but it was interesting to visit all these workshops in eight countries and do in depth interviews with the owner managers, to document how they work, their methodology, modus operandi etc. There were for example, several different ways to solve porosity in the heads.

Alas no US shop existed with a focus on classic Maseratis, we considered one Socal shop but it worked on restoring Masers decades ago, not currently and another shop near Chicago which has restored iconic racing Maseratis did not fit the bill (this being a book about classic GT car restorations) either. So no US shop qualified to be included in the book.

I was only involved with the book, as a contracted author, I am not involved with the rest of what they do.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/launching-classiche-masters-book-at-retromobile-today.616418/

Ask any questions after you have gone through this thread.
More info on the book in this section linked below. No commercial gain for me to mention it since I was paid by contract not royalties, just helping inform you.

https://www.classichemasters.com/shop


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My opinion on the 4.9 crankshafts is they are not very well balanced. When I rebuilt my Khamsin engine I had the crank balanced as well as the rest of the parts in the engine. The crank was not well balanced from the factory. I think this is an important part of rebuilding any engine 6 or V8. The other thing I do not like on the Maserati V8s is they do not have a crankshaft balancer on the front of the engine. These are very important and if you really want long life for the engine one should be installed

 

Sterling Damper in the UK makes one for the 4.7/4.9 Maserati

 

Thank you for the mention of Sterling Damper. I will check them out.

 

https://vibrationfree.co.uk/engine-dampers/

 

My 1973 Bora US 4.9 needs a tune-up...

Classic stuff.. compression test, leakdown, usual.. AFTER finding & fixing a vacuum leak up around intake manifold.
42dcnf tuning, of course. Usual stuff. Need to recall best ways re finding TDF... doubtless some prior mark somewhere...
(alas no degree wheel attached.. nor damper)

I'd prefer finding the right mechanic nearby (in/near Costa Mesa, CA) that has the right chops, attitude, etc.
AND tolerance for my need for being 'involved' in findings, judgments, solutions choices, et al as we go along.
Had a great such mechanic for decades for this Bora, but alas, he removed to east coast. Not easy to replace AT ALL.

I'm not shop-equipped nor expert (just a passing layman's grok for such mostly) but not as the actual hands-on guy (in decades).

Any helpful bits appreciated.
Thanks.

 

Hi there,
anyone have a part or reference number for ARP rod / conrod bolts, or similar?
Much appreciated

 

I'm trying to remove the triple timing chain sprocket located next to the oil pump on a Ghibli 4.9 engine. I purchased an M35 x 1.5 puller and have had no success in pulling the triple sprocket. Can anyone offer any suggestions on modifying the puller shown below or any techniques for the successful removal of the sprocket?
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has anyone a euro vacuum engine layout for a Quattroporte III , I am doing a conversion from USA spec California emissions to Euro have welded the vents in the headers for airpump engine (robs horsepower)

 

Were there ever any answers on these last 2 posts? How to remove the sprocket gear, and also the Euro conversion on the exhaust ports? Also looking into converting an '80 QPIII 4.9 to a dry sump system; any suggestions on this?

 

Well, here’s one. this thread seems relevant

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/crankshaft-sprocket-help-4-7-indy.541175/

and MIE appears to sell a puller.

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cheers!

mark

 

I'm about to embark on the same process. Unfortunately i can't get access to Stan's article. Engine is out of car which should help. Any key tips? My biggest concern is holding cams and thus chains in place whilst un-torquing and re-torquing - 159 lb/ft - yikes! Am thinking paper under each cam cap. Has anyone had experience good or bad with this? Do retainer and sprocket come apart from cam spline without too much fuss? Hopefully with an extra set of arms i can manage the chain tension issue that Paul describes. Any constructive thoughts much appreciated.

 

A word of caution with that. It's too long ago to remember what I did on my Bora but I tried this with my my 2L Ghibli Open Cup v6 and ended up snapping the cap in half! I had to buy another cap and have the bearing races line bored. When I do this next time I've decided to machine a piece of oak to act as brake in place of the cap.

Stan's manual was recently discussed on here with a download source. I thought it was on Ina Ruiz's website.