Official FerrariChat.com Poll: No Politics & Religion posts?

jon, imho this is exactly wrong. there are many people, which do not post in this section, but are nevertheless very concerned about it. and this has to do with the contents, the manners and the people, which control and finally run this section. this is a playground for the very rigthwings, which is strongly guarded, ruled by disrespect and continous offense of other opinions and other cultures. i made my own experiences about 2 years ago, and it was definitely enough for me and many others. for me it clearly sheds a bad light on ferrarichat.
once there was a post about the members, which would everyone like to meet and considered to be friends. the P&R section told me, that there are members, i really would not like to have as my friends nor to meet them (don't get me wrong, i can handle different opinions, as long as they are civilized and discussed in a civilized manner). i would not have a beer with them.
and i know, that this people would give a rats a$$ about it, but in my sense, this is very bad for our community.
ferrarichat is, due to the explicit will of rob and many others, not anymore a pure US forum, it became very international. please respect that, like we non-americans respect being a member of this community.

for me there's no argument about staying out of this section. what does it mean to stay out of a section in a community where you are a paying member of and knowing in the same time, that you as a non-american are ongoingly insulted and offended in that part, where you should stay out? what kind of a community is that supposed to be?

that's about the same as being at a party, where in another room are people you know exactly that they are making fun of you and bad jokes all the time, but then come out, grab a beer and having a smile at you.

it's bad for the international reputation of fchat and it is not ferrari-related.

my 2 rapps from the non-american swiss mountains.

 

Trevi,

If you want the R&P section shut down simply because you think it sheds a bad light on Ferrarichat you should take a look at the "general" off topic section as well. We have all sorts of "smut" and useless posts.

I find it ironic that the longest thread on Ferrarichat is the "bikini" thread. All sorts of "lude" comments and girls in flimsy g-strings. How does that reflect on Ferrarichat. If I want view such there is no shortage of sites for both clothed and unclothed babes.

And I also find it ironic that the most vulgar thread which ended in very heated personal attacks didn't occur on R&P but on the general thread.

I've been a member of Ferrarichat since it's inception and while I agree that the R&P section may be a bit too much for other people, I find it ironic that some here are saying it's a bad forum with all the useless dribble and idiotic posts on the general forum.

90% of the threads are of a civil nature and are engaged in between knowledgeable people who share and debate their views.

Pick any of the most current posts on that forum right now and point me to more than one post that is so repulsive you want it removed.

Cheers,


Jon

 

i agree on your opinions about smut and useless posts and threads (despite of knowing i'm guilty as hell as the starter of the bonkers tread in the european section). i don't remember, when i last visited the bikini thread, but as far as i remember, it has not much to do anymore with ferraris.

but between being useless and disrespecting and offending is a huge difference.

and yes, i could point you to many posts, which i really got upset about and i was even considering to press the mod-attention-button. the last i remember was some posts about antisemitism in europe, based on so-called "facts" which was so ridicilously spinned, obviously nonsense, but pure and sound anti-european, and no one seemed to realize what utter BS it was (...something like the europeans are antisemitists because in europe jews are in a minority, because they are less than 50% of the population.....etc).

you know, what i mean?
just as an example: what do you think, what french people would think about ferrarichat? why do we have only a very few french members? what do i tell a french ferrarista, when i would like motivate him to join ferrarichat?

do i tell him, ferrarichat is a wonderful community, but just stay out of the P&R section, because there the frenchs are constantly bashed in the most primitive redneck-style. just ignore it, besides of being french you will be a respected member?????
and no, it is not about some very very few civilized and rational arguments about french policy. it's as the french say: c'est le ton qui fait la musique!

it's not only about uncivilized opinions, it's very much about the uncivilized behaviour in this section.

it's not easy as non-english native to express exactly what i mean, but i hope you understand my points.

 

I would keep it. Lots of interesting read there.

 

I say keep it!

As it is now ferrarichat has got something for everyone, if you don't like the OT section, stay out!

/Peter

 

Let's leave it the way it is. I don't post there much, but I find various issues raised there interesting and thought-provoking.

 

No Politics and Religion talk allowed? Kind of sounds like the old Russia. What a dumb Idea. Whole point of people coming to America in the first place was to be allowed to freely express our opinions on those subjects. 99% of the people here handle this section just fine and to get rid of the whole thing cause of a few makes no sense, Just get rid of the couple who cause problems

 

I say keep it. I find many of the opinions expressed in there terrifying, but it's also good to see some of the more extreme views being challenged (no, I won't define extreme!). Somebody likened it to watching a train wreck, and I agree. I know I shouldn't look as I know most of what I see will amaze and/or sicken me, but I sometimes just can't help peeking!
I think it should be kept. I would have no objection to it becoming a subscription only section though.


P.S. The consensus seems to be to keep it, but make it subscribed. This is not an option in the poll. This seems to happen with most polls - most people want to vote for something that isn't on the list! That's my opinion anyway. Do you agree? Should we have a poll to decide?

 

Respectfully, not all people here are nice.

Not all people would be nice "to have a beer with".

I'd rather know ahead of time than hook up with a real ****** socially and only find out at that time.

Just because a person likes the same kind of car that I do does not mean we would get along.

People often do tend to reveal their true natures in posts. I think it's good to know that and avoid them.

 

good point. but the price seems to be a little bit too high for my taste. at least in europe i have not made any bad experiences meeting the fchatters in real live, you are able to discriminate them without talking about politics.

 

I know, you should break it up into sub forums...Christain, Jewist, Atheist, republican, democrat, ect...... then ban anyone who posts in the wrong section....or better yet, ban them unless they post something good on the bikini thread.

 

The difference is that jive talking about cars is just Car Guy stuff. When I was a kid (yeah, yeah, I know Dinos roamed the earth), all I heard was this Chevy versus Ford crap. So when I hear Frank Parker put down Dinos, it is water off a duck.

But when it comes to Politics and Religion, everything changes. As a general rule, I'm sure that most of us don't discuss our P&R views with strangers or, more importantly, with friends because you are almost guaranted a fight. This is why I think that it is important to be extra nice in this area. Getting down in the dirt accomplishes nothing.

At the end of the day, we as a community will need to enforce our own rules of behavior by simply doing it. If we have to rely on moderators, it will not work.

The good news is that we will have a better forum. For example, on several occassons, I have asked the ABB types (Anybody But Bush) for a good reason to vote for thier guy as opposed to voting against Bush. I have never gotten an answer because the thread soon dissolves into name calling and whatnot.

So let's make nicey-nice, otherwise Momma Rob is gonna kick our butts!

Dale

 

I think we should keep it, anyone who ventures into R & P knows what they are headed into, i agree that removing it will move topics into OT.

Besides who here can really argue the Ferraris are more important than R & P ?? I think that Politics and Religion are (watch me get flamed for this) MORE important than cars. I mean what good is any car if the US economy goes south, or we get hit with some nukes ??

I think that electing the Leader of the Free World, just might be as important as what options are available on the 612.


I love Ferraris as much as anyone here, but at the end of the day they really are just cars.
Free discussion of politics is one of the main reasons I have friends and relatives sleeping in the desert tonight in iraq, hoping they get to see there wives and kids again.

Micheal Douglas summed it up like this,
"America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free"


I say, live it, we have too many people fighting and dying for the freedom to discuss our political system................

 

P&R...what rough subjects. But then now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever participated in a "R" discussion on F-Chat that did anything but get some people slightly miffed. Discussion of all things "P" however, are when the insults start to fly. Perhaps a break in the action is in order, at least until the November election?

 

Remove it!
WHY @ ferrarichat.com?????
There are so many other playgrounds for this ______ (insert whatever you want) stuff!

 

P & R is the only real and adult section here. You do get to see the real person there. Other than the tech sections, fchat would mainly be an endless stream of fluff ( "your car is pretty", "thank you, your car is very pretty too, is that red?")

Everything should be allowed except threats of any kind. Threads of the type in P & R are about the only thing i look at any more.

T

 

LOL!

 

What precipitated this question? I enjoy that section, and probably post more there than in any other section, but don't view it or use it as a bash-0-rama. Granted, we can often predict where the usual participants will come out on a given topic, but among "not ferrari related" subjects, this has to be the only one with a clear connection to what's happening in the rest of the world.
I suppose one could say, why this forum, its supposed to be about little red cars from Italy and related topics, but as you know, relationships are formed, a community exists, and people here "live" together as much as they do at a workplace, in a neighborhood, or in any group, formal or informal.
I can't help but think that these issues, in one form or another, will creep into other parts of the forum if P&R is eliminated. Its like the Amsterdam approach to drugs and commercial sec: confine it to a particular area, for enjoyment by hardened users.

 

I would leave this section as is. I personally enjoy coming here, there are some great contributors and you can learn a lot here.

However, there are certain members that always take things to a personal level. The rules should be enforced strictly - temporary bans, etc. These same members are smart, good with words etc. and will attack the mods - claiming they are getting singled out, the mods aren't consistent, free speech, blah blah blah. The mods should not have to defend their actions.

If we remove P&R - this will spill over into O/T. I disagree with making this a subscription section. Traffic will go way down.

 

Fully agree with that. Have been on many car boards and many are just Fluff. The P&R give's a little edge to Fchat. I see no harm with adults arguing these very touchy subjects and that's why some humor is added in. Also just wondering what portion of the paying base here actually own a Ferrari? I only own a Maserati so God forbid I post on one of the Ferrari topics. And this forum gives me something to do while hanging around waiting for something to pop up in the other Italian topic. I like to have a little fun here but my main reason for joining Fchat was so I could help out anyone looking into buying a Maserati. When I was trying to decide last year I found pretty much zero info out there.

 

Agreed. Perhaps rules of "no flames" and "no attachments" should be enforced? Or even a disclaimer each time you enter the P&R forum in that session (or once a day) stating you'll abide by those rules.

Personally, I find it very informative. And I enjoy the right vs. left views.

 

Keep it open,if someone does not like it then they do not have to open it.
Dave Mc

 

I know. There is a rather large forum that has about 50 times the volume as here - Everything is (has to be) heavily moderated, but the big difference is that the identities of those moderators, while they may be posting under their own screen names from time to time, are unknown to the forum members at large.

I think that might work pretty good here, as well.

 

Napolis, Post #43.........ROTFLMAO!

It says it all, IMO.

Rob, this is opportunity knocking.......

"P&R..Chat..forFolkswhoownFerrarisorPretendtheyDo.com"

Trevi has valid points as well, we don't seem to have a French Regional Section........hmmmmmmm.

 

This topic should be left alone, but the enforcement needs to be modified. An example would be that if there are repeated (two) personal attacks (not threatening violence) then the person should be banned from that section for say 30 days. A repeat offender, permanently. With those sorts of penalties, it would be more congenial, and we've avoid a lot of the personal insults. Threatening violence should immediately call for a permanent ban.

Art