430 CCB life

Porsche brochures claim their PCCB should last 300,000kms under normal driving conditions.
I feel that Ferrari cars in general are 'lighter' on the brakes, perhaps it should last about the same or slightly longer, JMHO.
The best practical advantage is that they look great behind the wheels and there are little or almost no brake dust.

 

what are independand shop prices to change pads or if needed the disks?

or complete service?

 

For the CS I believe prices were approximately $1800 per axle for pads and about $4000 each for rotors, but I may be wrong.

 

I had a set on my former track car, an 05 997S. It had 25,000 miles on it when I sold it and still had almost half the pad.

 

Be very careful with used CCBs that you don't know what they've been through. The repair bill if you have to change them is north of $20,000. I had a car a while back that needed new breaks after ~7000 miles (including a couple of times to the track): http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225357

If you only drive on the street and don't live in, say, a brake-eater canyon or something, you'll most likely be fine. Just be prepared to fork over 20 Gs if that turns out not to be the case.

Oh, and for goodness sake, never, ever take a CCB Ferrari to the track unless $20k is lunch money to you.

 

My F430 showes 4% wear on discs and pads @ 8100 Miles

 

I'm intrigued and surprised by this comment...why shouldn't you ever track a CCB F430?

 

+1, this is one of the main reasons why I insisted on the CCB on the Ferrari.

 

Well, you can take you CCB Ferrari to the track but just DON'T use your brakes!!

 

CCBs can go bad really fast. This is double true if you make the mistake of having traction/stability control enabled while on the track. The computer will apply the brakes left and right and overheat them. You'll blow right through them in no time at all.

I blew through mine exceptionally fast, but mine must have had other issues. Either they were already well worn or there was a manufacturing defect.

I know of someone who's regularly been tracking his Stradale with CCBs. He gets about a couple of weekends worth of fun out of a set of pads. Rotors need to be changed every second time you do pads. So that's $20k+ for ~4 weekends of track work with the CCBs.

The Porsche guys picked up on this a while ago. Most people who use their GT3s for sustained track work end up changing from CCBs to steel.

Note this applies to actually driving a track with the intention of going fast. If you drive 6/10s at the track and puts around like a grandma, then maybe the brakes will last longer. But in that case you're wasting your time and would be much better off just picking up a cheap track car like a Spec Miata and actually do some 10/10 driving.

 

Do the rotors really wear down or do they get a lot of spider cracks?

Dave

 

I agree with what you have written too.
Cost is not a major concern to me, if one is worried about cost, then they are better advised not to put thier Ferrari on the track. Many other components will wear quickly as well.
The CCB offers a different braking feel and better handling performance when you are driving 10/10.

 

So I must have been putsing around like Grandma. I really love the experts on this forum.

 

If you drove 25,000 miles on the track and you still had half the original pads, you were absolutely putsing around. Unless you were driving very unusual tracks with incredibly easy braking zones. Either that or you must have a wonder compound that I've never heard the likes of anywhere.

 

The CCBs are definitely nicer if you don't care about cost. Unsprung weight savings are always very welcome.

But I don't know of any other wearable components on even a Ferrari that comes even close to the cost of the CCBs. Not tires, not clutch, not anything else I can think of.

So I'd say you'd be able to drastically reduce the expenses of tracking your Ferrari by going with steel rotors and good racing pads. And you're not going to be posting considerably different lap times than with the CCBs.

But again, if you can afford to play, no harm in going there. I just want to make sure that people know what they're getting into. Not everyone can or will spend that kind of cash on wearables.

 

CCB's will not wear like the traditional steel rotor. ie. they will not get thinner with miles driven. Instead, a computer on the vehicle will analyze heat cycles put on the discs and rec. that they be replaced accordingly while illuminating a light on the dash. If this is not followed, the discs can shatter when driven hard. Just looking at them for wear will not do any justice! In addition, spraying any type of aresol containing silicone near or on the disc itself can and will ruin the carbon ceramic rotor!

 

Agreed, I have seen cars do 300+ laps of our local track on the same set of pad and rotors with no issues and yes these were fast laps.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225837

 

Why do all the cars used in Ferrari Pilota courses use CCBs?
Instructors always encourage students to warm up and cool down laps at every session....the reason to CCB longevity?

 

I didn't drive 25,000 track miles, only had 8 sessions on this particular car. The point I was making is this car has 25,000 miles with original rotors and pads and has had some track days.

 

Street miles count for very little when it comes to brake longevity. So I can certainly believe that your CCBs are still fine after just 8 sessions. That's an entirely different story.

Also, how do you know that they were still fine? Did you get them measured? With CCBs you can't just eyeball them and tell.

 

From http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138271988&postcount=2

 

David,

Keep in mind that this is related to a racing application. I doubt that a street car can be driven in Racing conditions during a lapping day (DE, Time Trial, etc). The Challenge cars are running slicks, generating much more grip during braking than the street cars, and more wear on brakes.

cwwhk has been very helpful on pointing me to sources for performance parts and "how to" in the F430.

I'm seriously considering a 08/09 F430 Challenge. During my research, the dealer told me to expect two sets of CCB to run one season. Pretty much, a brand new set of rotors after the 3rd weekend. It sounds expensive and it is. Every weekend has 6 practice sessions, 2 qualifying sessions and 2 races. This is 4-5 hours of track time, after 3 weekends we are looking at 12-15 hours of track time to replace the CCB rotors.

I know from a F430 that ran 5 weekends on the original rotors. The Ferrari dealers don't replace the CCB rotors on the F430Challenge until the wear is above 60%. However, even at 5 weekends we are looking at 20 hours of track time (on slicks).

Definitely, track use on race tires will wear the brakes much more. I wore out the pads from my 2004 GT3 in 2.5 track hours, and my Cayman (29,000 miles) is still running the original brake pads (over 500 hours of use, no track time).

For the Scuderia, 16M and F430 Challenge (they use the same brakes), there are replacement floating cast-iron rotors. For the standard F430 with CCB it would require swapping the front calipers to F430C/16M/Scuderia calipers, and use the replacement cast iron rotors.

GMPartsDirect lists the ZR1 CCB rotors at $1223, they retail for $1600. I'm waiting to see the first ZR1 at an autoX or track day to take measurements of the front and rear rotors. I think it is feasible that one axle from the ZR1 is compatible with the hubs from the stock Ferrari F430 rotors.

A Brembo engineer told me that CCB last 4-6 times longer than cast iron. In the Porsche GT3 and GT3 RS I put around 40 hours on the PCCB before the fronts were due for replacement, the rear ones were still fine, but most of the track miles (3,000 miles) were on the 996 GT3 which is a car with lots of front brake bias.

There are other factors that contribute to wear out the CCB rotors a lot sooner:

1) using the stock brake fluid
2) using the stock brake pads
3) not performing a cool down lap after a track session

There are Porsche drivers that have had their CCB destroyed in two track days because of 1, 2 and 3.

Ferrari is not longer using the CCB compound from the Enzo, 360CS and 2005 F430. Brembo is supplying a 2nd generation of CCB rotors to Ferrari, they last much longer than the Enzo rotors. The 3rd generation of CCB rotors by Brembo is available via aftermarket, they are close to 1/2 the weight of the 2nd gen rotors, and they are supposed to last much longer, these new rotors don't have cross drilled pattern. Movit and Stoptech have kits available with these newer and lighter CCB rotors.

 

+1, thanks for the sharing your knowledge and experiences.