Question About (Cavallino) Concours Judging

My understanding is that if it was an originally available color, it is acceptable (there may be a small deduction but I'm not certain). Rebodys are not allowed on the field

Regards,

Art S.

 

I post these every now and then since there seem to be a lot of questions/disinformation about the rules. They seem pretty straight-forward to me. Of course, their consistent application is something else entirely. Cavallino judging uses the IAC/PFA rules promulgated by the FCA. Here they are. Your question re: rebodies is dealt with in rule 10. I believe Art is correct about the paint color, but I see that it is not specifically addressed in the rules.

NATIONAL CONCOURS JUDGING GUIDELINES

1. Each Ferrari entered for judging is expected to be fully operational and driven onto the show field for placement in the designated class. Cars are to be shown fully assembled; all parts such as wheels, bumpers, tops, belly pans, etc. are to be attached to the vehicle in the original position. The owner is to be present with the vehicle during the judging. If, for good reason, the owner cannot be available, a single individual may be designated by the owner to show the car during the class judging process. Owners are encouraged to bring a copy of the original factory build sheets for their car if available.

2. Each vehicle will be judged by a three person team. Each judge will evaluate one of the following categories: exterior, interior, engine/chassis. Each component in each category will be judged for both originality and condition. Factory options are considered original, after-market options are not. One of the judges will be designated the Chief Class Judge who will be responsible for introductions, final class decisions, submission of the results, and feedback to interested entrants. Judging conflicts of interest are to be avoided. A car may not change from display to judged after the deadline for applications.

3. At the start of judging, each car is assumed to have a perfect score of 100 points. As each component is judged, deductions of 0-5 points will be made as appropriate. Each car in the class will be judged by the same team in the same manner. A minimum of 95 points is required for 1st place (Platinum), 90 points for the single 2nd place (Gold), and 85 points for the single 3rd place (Silver). Platinum winners are eligible for major awards consideration. The one exception is Pebble Beach where the first, second, and third place winners are all eligible for the Luigi Chinetti Trophy.

4. The judges will not handle or operate the automobile. Owners or their designated representative will be asked to demonstrate the proper functioning of components, such as doors, windows, hood, trunk lid, and lights. Such items will be checked on competition cars where applicable. Equipment such as horns, radios, and air conditioning will be briefly checked for operability. A judge may ask to sit in the car with feet outside for the purpose of properly evaluating the interior of the vehicle.

5. Convertibles are to be judged with the soft top up and properly fastened. Cars with removable roof panels will be judged with the panels in place. Cars that were originally provided with tools and an owner's manual should have such items available for inspection. Authorized reprints are acceptable. The glove box pouch should be available where applicable. Those entering multiple cars must have a separate tool kit and manual for each entry.

6. The person showing the car will be asked to start the car and run the engine at idle. Proper instrument operation will be evaluated, the engine compartment will be checked for leaks, and lights will be tested. Quartz clock movements with the proper original appearance will be acceptable as a replacement in older cars. If there is a malfunction of any kind, the owner or representative will be given a chance to correct the fault while the next car in the class is being judged.

7. Factory-provided pollution control equipment should be as originally installed and have a working appearance. Modifications to headlights and other lights to conform to federal law, and modifications of structural and exhaust components to allow registration of gray market cars, will be acceptable so long as the changes are consistent and do not seriously detract from the original appearance of the automobile.

8. Routine replacement items, such as spark plugs, filters, battery, window glass, and tires, need not be the exact original brand or type provided that replacements conform to the general appearance, characteristics, and size of the original. Tires with the correct profile should be fitted to original rims and any spare should match unless the spare is an original specially-equipped factory item

9. If a car has unique or unusual design characteristics that place originality in question, the entrant should be prepared to offer substantiating documentation to the Chief Class Judge. Safety-related items that are not original, but which were added for safety purposes, such as seat belts, fire extinguisher, side view mirror, or alarm system, will be acceptable provided the installation of such items is neat, unobtrusive, and does not detract from the original appearance of the automobile. This also applies to audio-visual and telecommunications equipment.

10. The key purpose of the concours is to promote the preservation of the Ferrari in its original state. Therefore, the primary focus of the judging will be on originality, authenticity and condition with minor emphasis on cosmetics. Deductions will be made for over-restoration; extravagance detracts from originality. Applied patina is discouraged. Spyder conversions and unauthorized rebodies are ineligible for judging. Over-cleanliness is unnecessary; some slight road dust and wear is to be expected. Ferraris are meant to be driven.

 

My 1966 275gtb was originally Golden Beige and is now Red. I have won several Platinum awards and 99 point ratings. It is my understanding that original color is irrelevant. I don't know why it doesn't matter but I suppose it is because the chasis and body were made and assembled by diferent companies. Furthermore, the color of the car does not appear anywhere on the build sheets. I have always been told that as long as the color is a period correct color there will be no deductions. This was also told to me personally by the head of the Ferrari Classiche department.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

More photos of that silver car can be seen at the web site of the shop that restored it. Classicinvest.com. From the photos it looks like they did a very nice job. I did notice in the photos however, that the hard brake lines had been replaced by what looks like stainless steel. They should be copper platted.

 

They also plumbed the system incorrectly!
The front brakes are supposed to be connected to the rear portion of the brake master cylinder.

Brian B.

 

Then why 100 Points at Cavallino? I wonder what else is not correct on the car?

 

Oil lines for these cars are brown and fuel lines yellow

 

Maybe--just maybe--there's no guideline on color because the poor judge has no way of knowing the original color. He certainly can't rely on the bs that some of the owners emit. Oops; did I say that?

 

I have been a judge at Cavallino for a few years and hopefully I can help. There is no deduction if a car is painted a different color from original as long as the new color was period correct for the year. All conversions and rebodies are not allowed in. Remember the primary focus on IAC/PFA Ferrari judging is originality so a "wonderfully" restored car that is not faithful to originality will do poorly. That the silver 275 scored nearly 100 point would mean it was correct in addition to being beautiful.

No doubt there naturally is some subjectivity in judging despite the judging guidelines we are given so one cant make every one happy all the time and it is possible to miss small things. However I can tell you that after being at other events, Cavallino is the premier event and (along with the FCA) has the best judges. The list of judges, especially the ones that do the vintage classes is a who's who in the Ferrari world. While nothing is perfect, I believe you wont find a better concours than Cavallino.

Dan Reese

 

I did see the Breadvan a couple years ago there so I guess historically significant rebodies are allowed in but I dont think they are judged.

Dan Reese

 

Hi Dan,

On this note, there is something that has been puzzling me for some time. It is something that makes the whole notion of "true to original" contradictory.

The cars that come from the well known restoration shops, which also collect most of the top awards, their bodies are prepared to such a fine degree that they appear to be carved out of a solid slab of marble. In other words, the natural deflections that are inherent to hand formed sheet metal are hidden under many hours of block sanding.

At an FCA concours I saw a 250GT that still wore its factory paint. The panels were full of waves and deflections. One could even see the little dimples left behind from spot welding. Why don’t the judges command this kind of finish from the top level restorers?

Thank you.

john

 

John,

Is that question rhetorical or are you really seeking an answer?

Regards,

Art S.

 

+1 I was going to make my personal comments but decided not to. I do not wish to make people unpleasant. Jimmy

 

Interesting question. I wonder if it might even be tougher to achieve actual finish levels as they came from the factory than the ultra smooth ones we are now used to seeing?

tom w

 

What disturbs me most with "period correct colors" is that people now choose the color based on aesthetic valuation of today, which in many cases lead to cars being repainted in colors that were unpopular at the time. Likewise many colors that were popular in their day have vanished almost completely. When did you last see a GTE in bright metallic gold, for one?

 

I don't think so - especially if the car in question is a survivor. Anyway, if you ask a professional restorer for his opinion, he usually prefers going all the way: more hours, more $$$$. So far nobody seems to have come up with a smooth way to bill for NOT TOUCHING things that do need to be touched. Best wishes, Kare

 

nice painting of your 275 by Jan Matthias in Cav 159.......

 

have to agree with you. especially seems true of 330 GTC's (like mine). Originally dark dark red, magnificently restored for the late 80's frenzy in.....rosso corsa/resale red......$20k then, can't afford to redo it now.......
(well, at least no points off I guess.......)
Metallic colors were much more common on this late 60's car.....

james

 

not really a gte nor the point of this thread but....
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

James, thanks for the compliment.
As for the color, here is my opinion. Why, just because someone 40 years ago liked a certain color, does the present owner have to live with it forever. I thinks it is perfectly acceptable to change the color as long as it is a correct color for the car. I painted my 275gtb red because I thought it looked better in that color, it is as simple as that. I don't think I ever even considered the original sandy beige.

 

No, you don't have to! You can choose anything between army flat olive green and candy apple red with gold and silver flakes but don't fool yourself into thinking that YOUR CHOISE of "period correct" is any better. Best wishes, Kare

 

Hi John,

Your question about body over-restoration is a good one and I have heard it discussed before. The take on it as I see it is that judges would prefer a finish true to original but as was stated earlier a restorer cant bill for leaving it alone. Therefore although a factory type finish would be best I have not heard of a deduction for a too perfect paint job.

Also please note there is no deduction whatsoever for a less than perfect original car that just shows evidence of being driven but has been well cared for otherwise.

Dan Reese