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drop gear removal

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by eulk328, Feb 25, 2008.

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  1. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
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    #1 eulk328, Feb 25, 2008
    Regarding the 328..... I read that there is a snap-ring of sorts on the shaft that holds the bottom drop gear (must remove bottom drop gear for clutch change). Is the snap-ring on the backside of the drop gear or on the front side? In other words, does the snap ring have to be removed before the drop gear will come off or is the snap-ring removed after taking off the gear?
     
  2. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

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    #2 jwise, Feb 25, 2008
    snap-ring comes off first on a 308. I assume the 328 is the same.
     
  3. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    #3 RGigante, Feb 25, 2008
    I'm about to help a friend remove his 328 clutch and flywheel, so this will be helpful. I suppose it would the the same as a 328, but can anyone please confirm?
     
  4. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

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    #4 eulk328, Feb 25, 2008
    I should be doing it in about a week. If we don't hear from anyone else I'll let you know. If you do your friend's sooner let me know! :)
     
  5. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    #5 RGigante, Feb 25, 2008
    Yes, of course. But I think you will do yours first ...
     
  6. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #6 robertgarven, Feb 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Actually if you are talking about the step down or transfer gears there is a special nut on the input and output shaft gears, I think it is the same socket with two different nuts, the inside gear floats free with its bearings in the case and cover. There are or should be alignment dowels at intervals around the cover. I used 3 bond as a sealant as there is no gasket. make sure you put these back right a GT4 guy on this list nut came lose and caused some damage.. Mark the gears with a sharpie when you take them off and put them back the same way. I have been told this reduces the gears wear pattern. I also replaced the blow by cap with a hose.

    Rob
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  7. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

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    #7 Steve King, Feb 25, 2008
    I was under the impression that you only needed to remove the lower gear in order to get the clutch cover off. Is that true?
     
  8. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #8 robertgarven, Feb 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

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    #9 chrismorse, Feb 25, 2008
    My car felt like it had an overly stiff clutch, not having driven any other ferraris, i could only guess. but when i took my clutch apart, i noticed that the TO bearing collar was VERY reluctant to slide over the guide tube. On disassemble and cleaning, i noticed that there was a lot of gauling going on between the two. I filed and sanded them smoth, used lubriplate and replaced the clutch parts.

    Much easier, Much easier,


    And Robert, Your is WAAAAAAY to clean :) (I am so envious)

    check it out,
    chris
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 Steve Magnusson, Feb 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The 328 transfer gear set-up is a little different (better) than the 308 (the 328 has an extra outboard bearing on the gearbox input shaft so looks a little different than the 308 photos that Rob posted), but I think the "snap-ring" that you are referring to is inboard of the lowermost gear and is removed after removing the gear (on either a 308 or 328) -- and the reason it has to be removed (IIRC) is to get the Pumpkin Housing off (i.e., the hole in the Pumpkin Housing is only slightly larger than the gearbox input shaft and is smaller than the OD of the snap-ring):
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  11. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

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    #11 eulk328, Feb 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks Rob and everyone else for the photos and replies.

    Very useful photo Steve. So.... it seems the bearing is keeping me from removing the lower gear and not the snap ring. I've attached photos. I cannot get the bearing to slide off so I cannot get the gear off the shaft. I have a triangular puller which I could thread 3 screws into the threaded gear holes but the problem is I can only fit two screws in at a time. The bearing rollers interfere (will not allow) me to get the third screw in.
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  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 Steve Magnusson, Feb 26, 2008
    Yes, the way I read the 328 SPC tea leaves is that that whole bearing 10 should have slipped off the shaft and stayed in the transfer gear cover 19 (retained by its large snap-ring 11):

    http://www.eurospares.co.uk/partTable.asp?M=1&Mo=694&A=1&B=41273&S=

    It's a shame that the phasing of the rollers worked out wrong for the bolt-on puller, but you've got no option but to keep at it somehow -- the bearing inner race and the lower transfer gear have to come off.

    Did I say the 328 design was better? ;)
     
  13. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

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    #13 eulk328, Feb 26, 2008

    Yeah, it is a shame about the bearing phasing especially when they went to the trouble to provide the threaded holes for the gear. Obviously they weren't expecting the bearing to stay on. At the same time they could not make the bearing fit too loose or the wrong bits might be spinning.... weird.... It would be nice if I could apply some heat but of course the damn bearing cage is plastic :-(

    Thanks again for the ideas, photos, moral support etc.
     
  14. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #14 mk e, Feb 26, 2008

    Take a good long look at the cage...normally the rollers just pop in and can be popped back out easily. You just need to pop 1 out to get your puller on it looks like.
     
  15. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

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    #15 eulk328, Feb 26, 2008
    I will look into that. Somehow I figured that bearing must be at least a quarter million Dollars. I'll give it a try this weekend after a good German beer :) I'll have some extra beer on hand in case things don't go well.
     
  16. bill brooks

    bill brooks F1 Veteran
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    #16 bill brooks, Feb 26, 2008
    holy mackeral, andy. there are some mighty clean entrails in those shots!
    are these cars ever driven, or just kept clean?
     
  17. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #17 robertgarven, Feb 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks Steve! :)

    The collar is the metal ring in my picture that goes over the snap ring Steve is talking about. I am paranoid to use heat on stuff, but a heat gun might help that bearing come off. In the picture I posted there was a bearing in the bell housing and after heating it for a few minutes it just fell out! After a couple of jobs i ended up buying at least 4 or 5 different pullers and still need about 10 more!!

    BTW my car after disassembly had missing parts (throw-out bearing spring) and parts not for my car (throw-out bearing, see pic below) it appears my car had half the parts of the 308 easy clutch kit, however the complete retrofit required a alternate bell housing. I returned it to my hard clutch original set-up.

    Also my flywheel was in good shape but had been resurfaced where there was only half the timing marks on it and after trying to find a new one I ended up with a scotch brite pad on my drill and even though several had said that it was unorthodox but it came out very nice and has worked well. (see pic)

    Rob
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  18. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

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    #18 eulk328, Feb 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well...... I got the bearing and gear off finally. I was not able to pop a roller out of the cage. I did find out, after doing a scratch test, that the cage is not plastic but rather metal. So perhaps heat could have been applied.

    Anyway, I ground down the shafts of three screws and was then just barely able to clear all the bearing rollers and screw them into the gear using the puller. Even with the big mechanical advantage of the puller the bearing still fought removal every millimeter of the way. There was no rust or corrosion causing this just a tight fit. Also, the only snap ring is behind the gear. No ring to remove in front of the gear (or behind the bearing).

    I used stainless steel screws with the puller. You really notice the poor heat transfer with stainless steel. I was able to hold the screws to the grinding wheel with my bare hands for a while. "Normal" metal would have gotten hot real quick.

    It seems only the bearing was on the shaft tight and not the gear itself. Incidentally the 3 long screws that hold the starter motor to the bellhousing are the correct size, thread pitch and length to screw into the bottom hear threaded holes and use with the puller. However, I could not do this because it would have meant grinding down the shaft of those screws which need to be used again on the starter motor.
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