3.2 Mondial down on power, flooding, glowing red cat | FerrariChat

3.2 Mondial down on power, flooding, glowing red cat

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by TheMac, May 11, 2012.

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  1. TheMac

    TheMac Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2009
    452
    Alberta
    Full Name:
    Jon Mac
    I started my 88 3.2 Mondial on Wednesday evening. Previous drive had been a week and a half before and it performed fine then. The car started fine on Wednesday, and I let it warm up for between five and ten minutes. After warming up for a bit, I backed out of the garage and pulled out of the driveway. The engine was seriously down on power. I drove around the block. I pulled back into the driveway and it nearly stalled three times getting back into the garage. I popped the engine cover and smelled gasoline. I stuck my head under the car and saw that the catalytic converter was glowing red, so I shut it down.

    Today, I've checked the coils and the spark with a timing light. I've got good spark through all the wires, and I'm pretty sure I'm not down a cylinder. Still, the engine is flooding with gasoline and after even five minutes, the cat was glowing red again. I took the cat off to see if it was clogged. It's nearly brand new (2 years old, hyperflow). I did discover that the thermocouple is not intact; maybe that explains why my cat was glowing red and I didn't get a slow down light.

    After a search on FChat, I decided to disconnect the cold start injector and try it out. I disconnected it, ran the car around the block. It was fine. I reconnected the injector, and right away the car lost power again, I didn't even make it down the street before it stalled. But when I tested the switch, it seems to be working correctly: 12V to the cold start injector when the starter is engaged, 0V as soon as the starter disconnects. So I thought maybe the cold start injector is faulty, or leaking, so I pulled it and the nozzle was wet and had soot on it. I left the cold start injector out of the plenum, but reconnected the switch. I taped the injector's housing to prevent a vacuum leak. Then I taped the injector into a plastic bottle and drove the car again. It ran fine. I was trying to see if there was any fuel coming from the cold start injector. I got nothing, but by then the water temp was up, so I think I'll have to wait until it gets cold enough again for the thermo-time switch to activate the cold start injector, and see if it does it then. If the cold start injector were leaking, would it leak only when water temp was low? Or whenever the engine is running?

    Anybody have any ideas for diagnosis? Anything else I should be looking for or doing?
     
  2. andy2175m4@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2008
    473
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Andy Rein
    Your troubleshooting logic and sequence is right-on, you may have answered the question for yourself,

    Normally the cold start injector (csi) would only spray if the engine was cranking and cold, and then only for 5 seconds while cranking. Unlike the K Jet nozzles, the CSI is electrically controlled, so if the injector is spraying the whole time when the engine is cold, it's being incorrectly commanded by the system to spray.

    The system fuel pressure is always present on the CSI but it only sprays when the cold start timing circuit commands it.

    I will check the 3.2 schematic and see which device is most likely to blame.
     
  3. andy2175m4@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2008
    473
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Andy Rein
    there are 2 thermal-electric switches in series with the CSI, the one closest to the CSI is called the "cold start thermo switch" , the next one is called the "Thermo time switch". Both are screwed into the top of the block I believe, and both should be pulled and tested.

    My guess is it's the first one, if it's stuck in the on position and if it's test out that way should be replaced.
     
  4. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,586
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
  5. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,816
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Sure it does, 328/3.2 are the same. I just changed my Protection Relay for the FV last weekend, but it did not fix my idling problems, so I am still investigating.
    If it turns out to be a bad relay, Jon you can PM me, I still have my old one you can try.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=364375&page=4
     
  6. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,586
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    IT would not fix the idling problem, but it would fix the low power drivability problem Jon has.
     
  7. PT 328

    PT 328 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 1, 2005
    4,008
    Are you plug extenders in good condition, no pin hole sized burn marks? I lost a bank/power due to a burnt extender.
     
  8. TheMac

    TheMac Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2009
    452
    Alberta
    Full Name:
    Jon Mac
    #8 TheMac, May 12, 2012
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
    Thanks everybody for your help. I believe the problem is the cold start injector itself. I drove it four times this morning. First, the cold start injector did inject additional fuel upon cold start up. I kept the cold start injector isolated in a plastic water bottle. There was not a lot of fuel in the bottle, and the injector itself does not seem to be leaking fuel while I'm driving. However, when it is bolted into the plenum, there is vacuum from the plenum, and I'm thinking that the vacuum is the pulling fuel from the injector. With the cold start injector isolated, the car ran perfectly.

    My frequency valve is buzzing, so I don't think the protection relay is the problem. Mike, thanks for offering me your old protection relay. If my problem crops back up or something else makes me think I haven't hit on the correct solution, I might just ask you to send me the old one.

    Andy, I don't think the thermal switches are the culprits at the moment since the cold start injector switch tests correctly with the multimeter.

    Dan, my plug extenders all seem in good shape. I haven't lost a bank (or even a single cylinder), but the engine was flooding with fuel so it seemed more like a fuel injection issue to me than an electrical or ignition issue.

    Thanks everyone. I think I've found the problem. I will post more if I find anything else out.
     

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