512TR Main Shaft Twisted

Just so everyone is on the same page, that is not an output shaft, it is a propeller shaft.

Yours is already the heavy duty version and that is why the mainshaft broke. It just moved the weak link upstream to the next weakest point. It is not uncommon and is an expensive fix.

Current list price for the main shaft is $3400 and would not have been a problem if the smaller propeller shaft had been used. It was a forseeable outcome and Ferrari missed the boat. 512's should never of had that shaft, either that or a complete trans redesign needed to be done. After all it was designed for the 365BB with skinny tires and a bunch less torque.


Sorry to hear.

 

Chances are if whoever installed the differential had been up to speed on those transmissions they would have seen the twisted mainshaft spline and it could have been addressed then and saved from having to R+R the whole thing again.

The failure of the shaft is not a single event failure but happens over some time. They twist like a barber pole at the base of the splines. It should be a standard inspection item. We have been running into them since the cars were being built. I've replaced them under warranty.

 

You have posted pictures of the output shaft, with the spines deformed....

So the part he posted in the pics is still good, if he can pull that scrap out and inspect the splines for deformation??

This does make a good argument against increasing tire width from OEM.....

 

A follow on to this thread:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=140132448#post140132448

 

Yes the shaft acts like a fuse to save the trans

512TR & M definately should have had the trans behind the engine like on the F40, F50, Enzo etc

 

Is the cause due to abuse such as hard launches, burnouts, etc or does this happen when less agressive driving styles by standard street driven owners?

 

Even hard acceleration over uneven surfaces like train crossings and corrugations can do just as much harm as quick launches.

Consider any application where those massive tyres are likely to lose traction momentarily, and then gain full traction again in the next instant. That's where the big shocks come in.

Naturally dumping the clutch off the line is going to subject the entire drivetrain to massive forces, but that on/off/on situation can also do it.

Problem is we don't know how our cars were driven by previous owners. I always 'roll on' to about 5 mph, then I nail it. Never dump off the line.

My car was owned by the Secretary of the Yorkshire County Cricket Club, so I'm tipping it just wasn't 'correct' to be seen driving out of character, especially when in your late 70's and wearing the club colours on your blazer!

Mates car in Sydney hardly gets driven, and when it does it's like driving Miss Daisy, but his shaft gave up on a Sunday morning drive under normal acceleration. Problem is, who had it before? One burnout or dumped clutch a couple of years ago can manifest itself in tragic circumstances under the lightest load a few years down the track as it's already been stressed and / or weakened.

 

Owning one of these cars I'm not sure if we need brass or crystal balls!!

 

I snapped mine after doing Lime Rock track all weekend. The top of the hill the rear tires would get a little light then when the suspension came back down the rear tires would get traction again. One weekend of that was enough for my poor driveshaft

 

When your car is apart get the shaft Mag particle checked(cracked tested). In racing sometimes they paint a horizontal line along the shaft to keep track of twist.



Ago

 

I wonder how you could know if you ended up with one of the few 'dodgy' shafts? It's not a huge job to replace the shaft, less than 4 hours I'm told, and it certainly would be nice to be able to perform some simple hardness test or similar whilst it's out. If it's one of the 'dodgy' ones, maybe those few 512TR owners would even now have some claim against the factory if it could be proven that the material was defective.

 

Typical Ferrari excuse. They are underrated and will all fail given exposure to the same use. The failures were not limited to the 512's, it was just more common in them for all the obvious reasons. When they cannot shift blame, they say exposure to it is limited to a few cars. We heard the same BS over and over on every single fault found in the cars. They are institutionally incapable of accepting blame.

 

G. as we discussed, I will get this shaft from you over the weekend for measurements (to reproduce in a more stronger metal) as well as structural and metal conpositioin analysis. Once done, I will post the results.

 

Juri, that is NOT the shaft to copy it is a 20mm shaft that is too rigid. By simply making a stronger shaft you will move the stresses down stream and fail other more expensive components. I believe the best shaft available at present is the one produced in Australia that UZZ has the details on. This shaft twists and allows the loads to be taken more gradually through the box.

 

I'm not sure why you would want to re-invent the wheel Juri. The legwork has been done and a suitable shaft is available with nearly 15 years of race heritage testing behind it. I think the price that I'm able to offer the new single piece shafts is very reasonable so I'm at a loss as to why you would want to go to the trouble of trying to make a new shaft in a design or from a material which hasn't been tried and tested.

I'm a bit 'old school' and take a lot of satisfaction and peace of mind in knowing that the shafts I'm able to offer have been raced in the M series car for many years and have been manufactured by Australia's leading racing gearbox manufacturer. They have been supplying gearbox and driveline components for racing Ferrari's for many years and that's a reputation I'm quite happy to be able to offer the members here.

Frankly, I don't know if I'd want anything else in my car, especially after what we have seen the factory updated 512TR/M shafts can do to the mainshaft!

 

Thank you for advice.
I am looking at both parts. As I mentioned in my response to UZZ, I have not committeed to this project yet, just exploring the needs and options as this kind of problems arrise in the community. I agree with you regarding the spread of torque load along the shft to the connector under discussion and the downstream gears in the box. Ultimately, the whole gearbox, clutch, and the rest of the rear transaxel, suspension, and brakes should be upgraded to match higher horse power output of race-moded engines (like what the Norwood team does).
I will keep a'll in the loop about the developments.
Cheers.
Juri

 

Robert,
Thank you for advice.
To clarify my position, I am not in business of reinventing wheels... If I understood correctly, at this time you dont have any shafts left in stock. Production of those shafts one by one is too costly and the next batch should have a number of "subscribers" before you committ to produce the next batch of 6. Therefore, I thought maybe it would be worth while exploring the option of reproducing this shaft in the US.
You have a well established good reputation with those 6 shafts and should not worry about others considering to explore their options. Also, I clearly understand that there is not a big demand for these parts and, therefore, I dont intend to mass-produce it either.
At this point, the first thing I want to do is to scan the damaged shaft from my friend's (512BLU) car for microscopic or gross structural defects under a tortion load test.
I will keep ya'll posted.
Cheers.
Juri

 

I have two shafts available (including mine) and can do another run on very short notice, anytime that there is sufficient interest from the guys here. I won't fit mine till next major which is due in a few months.

 

Good to know. Thanks!
JG

 

FYI, somebody (not me) is selling the original shaft on eBay for <$1K:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FERRARI-TESTAROSSA-ENGINE-TRANS-SHAFT-PROPELLER-512-BB_W0QQitemZ370450905066QQcategoryZ50454QQcmdZViewItem

 

Here is another one one eBay for <$1K (not mine either...):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-512-Transmission-Shaft-part-151651-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19c1c791e6QQitemZ110625264102QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQQxZ53QQyZ11

 

I love this part: List Is $3725.41..No Longer Available.......part# 151651

They will get cheaper and cheaper as people gain more of an understanding of how potentially dangerous and costly they can be, and they realize that there is a better alternative out there for them.